Anyone else using Cab-Lab 4??

[Orvillain]

I just picked up the York Audio 4x12 Recto dyna cab, and the Fractal Marshall 1960TV pack too. $58 all told. Now while I do have plenty of IR's of both of these cabs from the likes of York Audio and Ownhammer already, I didn't mind spaffing a bit of cash to get the dyna cab versions. They sound great and are very easy to dial in!

 

[EOengineer]

For someone not really familiar with the fractalverse - what do you get practically out of dyna cabs vs your typical IR?

 

[Orvillain]

For someone not really familiar with the fractalverse - what do you get practically out of dyna cabs vs your typical IR?

You can move the mic around, blend mics together, mix together multiple cabs/mic positions, filter them with high and low cuts, and if you're a Fractal user, you can even bake the result down to a single IR that you can then put directly into the device.

Currently I have my Mark V amp going into my Suhr loadbox, and then coming into Cab-Lab 4 and I can dial in tones in the context of a song this way, without pissing off the neighbours, while still being able to use my valve amps.

I think IR's have become an essential tool for the modern guitarist, and I really like how Fractal capture IR's of the ENTIRE FRONT OF THE SPEAKER... which means you can get really nerdy about microphone positioning.

Also I don't own a real U87, or a 121, or half of the mics that they use.

Basically.... tis a virtual cabinet+mic plugin that you can get great tones from!

 

[Orvillain]

I just grabbed the Friedman pack too!

 

[EOengineer]

Currently I have my Mark V amp going into my Suhr loadbox, and then coming into Cab-Lab 4 and I can dial in tones in the context of a song this way, without pissing off the neighbours, while still being able to use my valve amps.

Just a thought, but you could push your neighbors out a window and use their life insurance to buy an 87 and 121. Maybe even a 1073.

 

[Orvillain]

Just a thought, but you could push your neighbors out a window and use their life insurance to buy an 87 and 121. Maybe even a 1073.

I love this plan!

 

[KHAAAAAAANNNNNNN!!!!!!!!]

I just grabbed the Friedman pack too!

 

[KHAAAAAAANNNNNNN!!!!!!!!]

I just grabbed the Friedman pack too!

Orv, could you do a quick comp of the overall difference between the 1960TV and Friedman packs you bought and the on device dyna-cabs. I'm just not jiving with them on the FM9. Not too bad for clean. But there is just something I don't like when adding much gain.

 

[Jarick]

No but I’m curious what you think compared to fractal hardware cabs.

With these new studio monitors I need to rediscover everything again. The impulses I was using now sound really bright and things like dyna cabs which were a bit dark sound better now.

 

[Mongillo19]

I liked the idea but it was too much of a disconnect and time sink to me and just rather use dynacabs.

 

[laxu]

The major failings of that software (and cab packs) to me are:

• You can't export IRs for use with other products than Fractal. This is the absolute biggest issue for me. I use ML MIKKO 2 instead and just that difference is major.
• You can't install those cab packs on the Fractal hardware. You can only export mixes. I understand the technical difficulty of this, but it does diminish the value.
• Most of the cabs available are just expanded versions of the ones already on the Fractals. Adding more cone area and mics to play with does absolutely nothing for me.

I just don't see it as that useful unless you want to use the Dyna-Cabs inside the DAW.

 

[Orvillain]

The major failings of that software (and cab packs) to me are:

• You can't export IRs for use with other products than Fractal. This is the absolute biggest issue for me. I use ML MIKKO 2 instead and just that difference is major.

Yeah I see why this would be an issue for anyone wanting to use non-Fractal gear. I actually shot a bunch of IR's with my Axe3 directly, a year or so ago. I ended up re-shooting them using Cab-Lab 3 and Reaper, and then using Voxengo's Denconvolver application to effectively resample them to WAV format. It does work, but just takes a bit of time. I wish Fractal would reconsider their closed wall on this. I can see why they'd want to lock Dyna-Cabs to Cab Lab 4 itself, but I cannot understand why there isn't a WAV export. I guess it is a copy protection thing?

• You can't install those cab packs on the Fractal hardware. You can only export mixes. I understand the technical difficulty of this, but it does diminish the value.

I don't know if they have any plans to change this, but it would be great if you could use the fuller Dyna Cab packs on the Fractal hardware, for sure.

• Most of the cabs available are just expanded versions of the ones already on the Fractals. Adding more cone area and mics to play with does absolutely nothing for me.

This is the one point I disagree with. Capturing IR's of the entire matrix of possibilities for a speaker, really adds to the realism of using amp sims and load boxes. Adding all the mics means that you can really get stuck in an experiment. I came up with some clean tones yesterday using my Mark V amp in 4-cable-method with the Axe3, and then the Suhr loadbox into the DAW, and I was able to mix a bunch of ribbons together and it sounded lush AF !

I just don't see it as that useful unless you want to use the Dyna-Cabs inside the DAW.

Yeah, that is pretty much the goal with this I guess. I've got a Suhr Reactive Load IR, but I don't like the built in IR loader. Cab Lab 4 sounds way better and is a lot more fun to use.

Things I'd like to see @Fractal M@ @FractalAudio

- Ability to change the cab/speaker/mic from the 'Zoom' page.
- Tool-tips for 'Angular', Centre/Edge', and 'Distance' when you move those parameters on the 'Main' page.
- Even better than tool-tips, would be value readout boxes on screen so you can reference them at all times.
- An option to retain the last mic position and mic selection (if possible) when switching cab or speaker in the 'Main' page.

 

[SillyOctpuss]

Cab lab always interested me but like Laxu it's a total deal breaker if I can't use them with hardware other than fractal.

I really like most of the York IRs I've bought but would love to use the cab lab interface to dial them in instead of just running through a giant list. I always get bogged down in option paralysis and forgetting what previous IRs sounded like when clicking through a list.

 

[laxu]

Yeah I see why this would be an issue for anyone wanting to use non-Fractal gear. I actually shot a bunch of IR's with my Axe3 directly, a year or so ago. I ended up re-shooting them using Cab-Lab 3 and Reaper, and then using Voxengo's Denconvolver application to effectively resample them to WAV format. It does work, but just takes a bit of time. I wish Fractal would reconsider their closed wall on this. I can see why they'd want to lock Dyna-Cabs to Cab Lab 4 itself, but I cannot understand why there isn't a WAV export. I guess it is a copy protection thing?

Yeah as you said you can do that, but it's not as simple as "press Export IR, select format". It's annoying to have to jump through hoops like that to get around a limitation that doesn't need to be there.

I don't know if they have any plans to change this, but it would be great if you could use the fuller Dyna Cab packs on the Fractal hardware, for sure.

I think this will be a next gen feature. I assume the current Fractal's just don't have the storage space reserve for more cabs. It's the most understandable compromise on the Cab Lab.

This is the one point I disagree with. Capturing IR's of the entire matrix of possibilities for a speaker, really adds to the realism of using amp sims and load boxes. Adding all the mics means that you can really get stuck in an experiment.

I find that exploring the whole cone area really gets into the weeds, and the hardware cabs' limitations avoid too much comparing if this side or that side sounds better.

I can see more mic options than Dyna-Cabs have as useful, but the mics picked for the hardware cabs are great choices already.

To me the hardware Dyna-Cabs are in that sweet spot where you aren't overwhelmed by options but they are still very capable.

 

[Orvillain]

I think this will be a next gen feature. I assume the current Fractal's just don't have the storage space reserve for more cabs. It's the most understandable compromise on the Cab Lab.

Could be true. Take the Dyna-Cabs download. It is about 21mb. The Freed Man dyna cab pack is 730mb-ish. Vastly different scale.

I find that exploring the whole cone area really gets into the weeds

I think it matters a lot when the state purpose is to emulate the real world experience of moving a microphone around in front of a real cab.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

It is so nearly perfect, but the points @laxu makes are generally how I feel: for all the problems it solves, it creates some new ones that make it a trade off (when it doesn’t need to be that way).

On top of that, I’d love to see

- all speakers captured from each cab
- ability to disengage MPT (or map the delay control to re-offset the timing to as it was captured)
- some kind of realistic level of each mic positioned preserved. I get why normalisation is helpful when interpolating several IR’s, but it would be cool to move the mic and hear things as you would in the rear world.

It gets a lot right, but the packs are quite expensive with the limitations factored in. I think it makes sense if you fully commit to that ecosystem, but I’m always juggling various things.

 

[aivoryuk]

- some kind of realistic level of each mic positioned preserved. I get why normalisation is helpful when interpolating several IR’s, but it would be cool to move the mic and hear things as you would in the rear world.

I quite like Fractal's approach to normalisation - I've been using GGD Contenders pack recently and it sounds great but II find it quite annoying when adding more cabs increases the volume etc.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I quite like Fractal's approach to normalisation - I've been using GGD Contenders pack recently and it sounds great but II find it quite annoying when adding more cabs increases the volume etc.

this is a different thing to what I'm talking about though.

When you mic up a cab and move the microphone, the volume changes quite a lot at different positions away from the centre. We don't really hear it like a volume knob adjusting things though because the frequency response is also changing a lot. The way we percieve these frequencies changing sounds more like certain frequencies are getting louder and quieter rather than just the overall volume jumping around. When each IR is normalized, it feels pretty different to slide the mic along.

Either way, I think having an option to preserve the original volumes would be nice to have (albeit only useful to someone who is used to micing real cabs).

 

[Orvillain]

An option to preserve the original volumes and the original phase offsets would be quite nifty. As an audio engineer, I'd prefer to have the experience be as close to an original studio experience as possible.

But actually, as a guitarist and when I'm in the mindset of "I just want it to sound good, and quickly" ... I quite like what they're doing.

 

[Orvillain]

To me the hardware Dyna-Cabs are in that sweet spot where you aren't overwhelmed by options but they are still very capable.

Also on this... the software ones... you get vintage and modern SM57 and Sennheiser 421 options, which you don't get with the hardware ones. In fact I think Cliff opted for the SM7b instead of the 421, which isn't really the choice I would make.

You get a lot more options with the desktop dyna packs: