“It’s really loud for a 15 watt amp!”

[metropolis_4]

No it’s not. You just assumed low watt amps would be quieter than they really are

I don’t think I’ve ever seen an internet discussion about an amp under 50 watts that didn’t include this comment. It’s like people still think a 50 watt amp must be half the volume of a 100 watt amp

 

[TJontheRoad]

Well, there's loud and then there's LOUD. At some point it's all the same.

 

[jellodog]

Totally agree. Even my 5w amp was loud AF. Although admittedly that had a Deluxe Reverb transformer, so not under specced like so many small amps.

Power tubes with high voltages and big caps are really something else!

 

[OrganicZed]

You need 10x the power to be 2x the perceived volume. That means that a 1W amplifier is only 1/4 the volume of a 100W amplifier and a 10W amplifier is only 1/2 the volume of a 100W amp. Speaker efficiency also matters quite a bit.

 

[RaceU4her]

cause people on the internet are fucking stupid

 

[Baba]

Truth. There were plenty of times where I would use my Hughes & Kettner Grandmeister 40 Deluxe on it's 20 watt setting, and my master volume would be on like, 4, and kept up with my band.

I mean, my drummer doesn't pound like an animal, and is very dynamic, but, still.

 

[laxu]

I measured my Mesa Mark V 90 at 10W on ch2 through the combo's 1x12 Celestion MC90. MV cranked to 6 without the fx loop on it put out something like 102 dBA @ 1m. That's already painfully loud in a room.

It doesn't help that master volumes on tube amps are not intuitive. You can reach max clean headroom on anything from 2-5/10 depending on the amp, and then it just overdrives the poweramp more and more.

I think that's also where a lot of the "wow, this is so much louder than my solid-state amp" stuff comes from. Solid-state amp on 9/10 is the same volume as the tube amp on 4/10.

 

[Jarick]

Amps are so much louder than you expect!

My Orange 15 in "bedroom" mode is about half a watt and I can get it up to about 9:00 before it goes past conversation level. Cranking it up would definitely bug everyone in my house. My JJ Junior at 20 watts I literally can only get it just cracked open before it goes past conversation level.

In my drumming days, one of our guitarists used a THD Univalve that was barely more than 7 watts, running into a 4x12 cab, and that generally kept up with my heavy hands.

 

[RGB]

Yeah, the 60/100 switch on my Boogie IIB doesn't do much more than remove a little girth...and rest two of the power tubes. I've never used it, not even at home.

 

[OrganicZed]

Yeah, the 60/100 switch on my Boogie IIB doesn't do much more than remove a little girth...and rest two of the power tubes. I've never used it, not even at home.

I have a Fryette Sig:X and it has a 40W and 100W mode switch. There is almost no volume difference between the two. The feel, however, is different. The 40W mode also uses a tube rectifier, so that is affecting the feel component as well.

 

[sleewell]

100% fax



Loudness aside there's also a huge difference in tone and feel between preamp distortion w plenty of power where the power section isn't close to distortion or tube distortion from a dimed power section w smaller glass.

 

[Chocol8]

If you have a typical 12" guitar speaker with a 1khz sensitivity of 97-103 db, it means 1w will be 97-103db (sustained?) measured at 1 meter. That is already pretty loud to most people, well above conversation or TV volume. Movies are mixed with expected PEAKS to be 103 db or below (excluding subs) in a calibrated theater and that is loud. (movie reference is 85 dbc for pink noise at -20 dbfs, and usually peaks are mixed to -2 db or lower)

So, unless you have unusually inefficient speakers, it doesn't matter if you have 1w, 5w, or 15w, they are all too loud for conversation level playing when cranked. So, if you have to turn down or attenuate either way, there is little practical difference between 15 and 50 watt amps from a loudness perspective.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Loud? Yes!
Balls? No!

 

[Chocol8]

Loud? Yes!
Balls? No!

A succinct description of low wattage tube amps.

 

[Desertdweller]

No it’s not. You just assumed low watt amps would be quieter than they really are

I don’t think I’ve ever seen an internet discussion about an amp under 50 watts that didn’t include this comment. It’s like people still think a 50 watt amp must be half the volume of a 100 watt amp

Objectively the PRS MT15 is louder than other mini amps though. I had a mini rec, MT15, and a full size dual rec for a while, and there were serious differences in tone and loudness with each amp.

The mini rec was loud, but once you reached about 11 o'clock on the master knob you weren't adding volume anymore but instead power tube saturation. I couldn't get it loud enough with my band at rehearsal.

The MT15 however could go much louder and could get to rehearsal volumes with no problem. It was a better utility amp to me than the mini rec as a result. The drawback I found were that at high volumes the bass end would fall apart, and the fx loop hummed. Basically I'd get washy bass from the amp at higher volumes, probably due to the smaller PT in it meant for delivering 15 watts.

Comparatively the dual rec, boosted of course, was superior in tone and clarity to both the mini amps, but there is power in the MT15 that cannot be denied and it is the one amp that does harness the cliché "punch above its weight class."

 

[Chocol8]

Very few amps put out exactly their rated power. Ratings are usually max clean power and often measured at a single frequency. In real world use, a distorted amp may be putting out twice the rated output, or may not actually hit the rated output. That is a difference of about 3 db, all else equal, which is certainly noticeable, but all else is rarely equal.

 

[metropolis_4]

You metal guys always make me so glad I don’t have to deal with the gear requirements of that style

I’ve played hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of gigs with amps <= 30 watts and they always sound

 

[laxu]

You metal guys always make me so glad I don’t have to deal with the gear requirements of that style

I’ve played hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of gigs with amps <= 30 watts and they always sound

Yeah for bluesier stuff I don't mind lower power at all. I liked the 45W Bogner Goldfinger better power scaled to 30W for that because it was a bit looser, sweeter, and less dramatic dynamic range. Same deal with the Mark V at 45 or 10W instead of 90W.

But for hard rock and metal, gimme that headroom!

 

[MatrixClaw]

I like the sag of lower wattage amps for metal. Never really got the high headroom thing. For instance - I prefer almost any amp available in 50 and 100w to be in 50w, because you can typically get a little power tube saturation at rehearsal/gig volumes. I can't even think of an amp off hand that I preferred in the higher wattage version, except amps that are inherently very loose by default (ie: I like the Triple Rectifier the most, also the Diezel Einstein 100).

That said, sag for EL84s is a lot different than it is from 6L6 or EL34. EL84s sound gross for metal when cranked IMO. They have made huge strides in making them sound better at lower volumes, but they still fall apart if you try to use them in a loud band setting, because they were designed to breakup much earlier than larger bottle tubes were.

 

[Chocol8]

I am not a metal guy at all. I listen to some but pretty much never play it.

Even for clean stuff the higher wattage amps have a different attack and dynamics that I have never gotten from a small tube amp. A big amp through a reactive load reamped or with a good attenuator, or even a digital solution, sound and feel better at lower volumes to me.