TwoNotes GENOME!!!

[dronerstone]

With all do respect, I gave up long time ago this fixation with input leveling! If you own real amps, and a bunch of guitars we deal with input leveling all the time!!! its called, different pickups!! How do we solve low input pickups, by either turning up the gain or using a boosting pedal.

Use your ears not your eyes when dealing with inputs in digital amp simulator or captures. Trust your ears!

I get it.

But all we want are numbers. Simple as that.

All the "use your ears" it's getting a little boring. If course we can do that, and very probably with good results too.

It's just that the question was a different one from the start.

Different real-life amps react to different pickups. I'd be happy to have actual data so I can choose whichever guitar I feel like playing at the time, and have the model react to the guitar signal like the real amp would.

And dodging the answer (especially while otherwise interacting nicely and friendly) just makes it more suspicious.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

If you own real amps, and a bunch of guitars we deal with input leveling all the time!!! its called, different pickups!! How do we solve low input pickups, by either turning up the gain or using a boosting pedal.

Use your ears not your eyes when dealing with inputs in digital amp simulator or captures. Trust your ears!

not the same thing, its a crap approach for modelling to have that attitude when we are spoiled for choice with models that can behave 1:1 with the real thing. Saying “use your ears” as if it’s helpful advice doesn’t help anyone. Everyone is using their ears all the time

My ears tell me that something is off, and my intuition wants to know why rather than just play a guessing game (when I can just use something else).

 

[nicolasrivera]

not the same thing, its a crap approach for modelling to have that attitude when we are spoiled for choice with models that can behave 1:1 with the real thing. Saying “use your ears” as if it’s helpful advice doesn’t help anyone. Everyone is using their ears all the time

My ears tell me that something is off, and my intuition wants to know why rather than just play a guessing game (when I can just use something else).

Can't your ears adjust the input gain until they tell you that something is off its now gone?

By know its pretty clear, to me at least, that not IKM, Kemper, NAM, etc have this solve to a degree that we as guitar player don't have to think about it. But its not really a deal breaker IMO if the tone its good, and we all know that a capture can vary immensely from user to user even with the same amp and interface.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Can't your ears adjust the input gain until they tell you that something is off its now gone?

I’ve never played a Badlander, nor a real Ecstasy. They each have their own channels, gain switches, and gain interactions that even someone familiar with the amp might not comfortably tell is correct.

I was playing Helix’s BE100 model today, and experimenting with a gain block before the amp. I could lower the level 15-20dB and get some cool tones. If I had never played a BE100 before and had no reference point, how would I know where the real amp’s behaviour lives? Try the same thing on a Plexi, it’s basically impossible to tell which represents the reference amp the closest.

If the goal isn’t to emulate the real thing closely, why even go to the trouble of modelling it in the first place? And once it is modelled, by definition, they already have a fixed reference of what analog signal in the real world correlates to in the plugin. The value is already in their model - it’s simply down to whether it’s shared publicly or not. There is no benefit to withholding it.

 

[dronerstone]

The value is already in their model - it’s simply down to whether it’s shared publicly or not. There is no benefit to withholding it.

Couldn't have said it better.

 

[Sedaxel]

its pretty clear, to me at least, that not IKM, Kemper, NAM, etc have this solve to a degree that we as guitar player don't have to think about it.

I disagree. Kemper and NDSP have it solved. They use their own hardware for capturing AND playing the capture... So they have the advantage that no input gain guessing involved.

Now seriously, please don't misunderstand me, I'm going to tell this in an absolutely friendly mood, regarding the "use your ears" stuff when talking about captures: are you sure you understand all this input gain thing? Really, for me it's unbelievable that someone who knows what this is about is still throwing that kind of statements.

Peace.

 

[nicolasrivera]

I disagree. Kemper and NDSP have it solved. They use their own hardware for capturing AND playing the capture... So they have the advantage that no input gain guessing involved.

yet the captures from Neural for example have a bit lower gain than the real amp being captured.

 

[2dor]

yet the captures from Neural for example have a bit lower gain than the real amp being captured.

That's not always the case. As long as there's no crazy impedance mismatch in between the output of the captured device and the IN2 of the Quad Cortex AAANND the user leaves the IN1 level at 0dB during capture calibration, most captures turn out alright. There are cases I've re-encountered where if there is a considerable amount of high end & gain in the captured device that you'll experience what you have described.
I suspect that they could make this stuff better by increasing training time (or allowing the user for an extended training session) but so far they haven't done it.

 

[2dor]

Hi @2dor

Ross from Two notes here. You are indeed correct - although the basis for this starts with our current poweramp modelling technology. Let me know if you have any other questions concerning this!

Ross, what load do you folks use / apply to the poweramp when these are modeled? Curious if it's something that's similar to the Captor-X or something with more resonance in the low & high frequency ranges.

 

[2dor]

@Ross Davies been toying around with GENOME lately & I like the TSM-AI amps.

Given you folks have included the ability to bypass the poweramp section of the TSM-AI amps, would you consider adding the reverse of this as well: disabling the preamp section of the TSM-AI amp and just keep the poweramp active?

This would allow users to run, for instance, the preamp of the Rockrider into the poweramp of the Molly.

 

[GTR37]

The new clips of the Molly sound quite good actually
I don’t know if there is another modeller that has XTC101b and Badlander models

 

[mikah912]

The new clips of the Molly sound quite good actually
I don’t know if there is another modeller that has XTC101b and Badlander models

Also, there is not another modeler - well, Quad Cortex, I guess - that charges for additional models. Not really stoked to drift back to the days of ye olde expansion packs....

Genome's pricing is hella weird too. The fairly in-demand Badlander and Ecstasy pack is $35, which is annoying but not onerous. Yet, the expansion pack before it which is just a Laboga Mr. Hector, Roland Space Echo and MXR Carbon Copy is $80?!?!

 

[GTR37]

Also, there is not another modeler - well, Quad Cortex, I guess - that charges for additional models. Not really stoked to drift back to the days of ye olde expansion packs....

Genome's pricing is hella weird too. The fairly in-demand Badlander and Ecstasy pack is $35, which is annoying but not onerous. Yet, the expansion pack before it which is just a Laboga Mr. Hector, Roland Space Echo and MXR Carbon Copy is $80?!?!

Oddly enough I am one of the people that would be fine to pay for the option to get exactly what you want

If there was something like QC Brain compact w same GUI and they let me only buy what I want that great like Synergy
Or they have a sale 50% off amps as long as they are not charging $ 50 an amp or making you have to pay for bundles ( kind like the car companies to get the sunroof you need all this other stuff )
I am fine with a box 10 amps
Couple of drives , delays

You can always add stuff later

 

[Sascha Franck]

In their defense, in plugin land, expansion packs are quite a common thing, be it for presets, sample libraries or whatever.

 

[mikah912]

Oddly enough I am one of the people that would be fine to pay for the option to get exactly what you want

If there was something like QC Brain compact w same GUI and they let me only buy what I want that great like Synergy
Or they have a sale 50% off amps as long as they are not charging $ 50 an amp or making you have to pay for bundles ( kind like the car companies to get the sunroof you need all this other stuff )
I am fine with a box 10 amps
Couple of drives , delays

You can always add stuff later

I abandoned all IK Multimedia stuff (and have a never-used license of Tonex Max sitting around too) as well as STL Tonehub specifically because I got tired of the vending machine model. It seems reasonable at first, but it's not feasible for them unless they can continually incentivize you to buy more.

I get it with synth VSTs, but I'm tired of amp modeling/profiling platforms hiding what I consider to be table stakes items behind paywalls. That's why I mostly use just hardware these days (and Helix Native).

Would I ever buy an a la carte Quad Cortex? Probably not, because the price savings would likely be minimal compared to a full-fat QC, and we already know their price for individual amp/cab instances is in the $100 range.

 

[Whizzinby]

Plug-ins are different because the entire value proposition of it is its stand alone utility.

Paid DLC after purchasing hardware sucks.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Well, as far as paid updates/content go: You either have to do it at one point in time or you have to stop supporting older hardware and come up with something new to restart the entire thing.
Look at the HX family. By now, I'd say their sales aren't exactly huge anymore because anybody interested will have their units already. Sure, as it's still supported there will be a more or less constant stream of new customers, but I'd bet that they're way less than 5 years ago, especially considering that the competition hss gotten pretty stiff.
As a result, you need to ask yourself for how long you could deliver free updates and still justify it economically. And while I have no idea of how close we are alresdy, at one point in time you just need to stop the free updates, no way around it.
So, as a user, I can as well ask myself whether I'd prefer keeping my old setup and receive some more updates, this time costing a few bucks - or whether I'd want to spend a considerable amount of money for entirely new hardware, possibly also coming along with some new issues.
Of course then there's also Boss. Buy something as is and be done. I've got quite a sweet spot for that, too.

 

[mikah912]

Plug-ins are different because the entire value proposition of it is its stand alone utility.

Paid DLC after purchasing hardware sucks.

I guess I'm spoiled with Helix Native. To be clear, I have a Genome license in my Two Notes account as a result of having purchased a number of WoS cabs back in the day. Much like my Tonex Max, that's also unused.

I think I'm trying to slim down and simplify my guitar plugin collection more than anything else. Having so many options available when I open Ableton Live makes me want to tweak and tone hunt more than get down to the business of making music.

 

[Sascha Franck]

o be clear, I have a Genome license in my Two Notes account as a result of having purchased a number of WoS cabs back in the day. Much like my Tonex Max, that's also unused.

Fwiw, as a sidenote: IMO the capture playback block of Genome is the best around. Worth installing it just because of that block IMO. Too bad capture organisation/handling is almost as bad as it gets.

 

[mikah912]

Fwiw, as a sidenote: IMO the capture playback block of Genome is the best around. Worth installing it just because of that block IMO. Too bad capture organisation/handling is almost as bad as it gets.

Say more. Are you sayng the playback of NAM captures sounds better than competing NAM-playoing plugins? Does it look better?

I would think bad organization and handling/layout makes it a bad capture player, but what do I know?