Thinking out loud about a computer based live setup...

Soundwise? For bread and butter = no. For anything else = defenitely yes.
And handling wise? Once it's done = every single bit yes. Minus the separated devices (floor control and computer/interface storage).
Yeah if there’s some processing you can only do on a computer, I get it.

What it would come down to for me is, how much do I have to spend on a good midi controller, and could I instead spend that money on dedicated hardware that will do what I need without having to use a laptop and an interface in a live performance? Is there a combination of pedals that can do it? I think any limitations would still beat trying to use a laptop and interface and midi controller live. I just wouldn’t want to think about any of that stuff or worry about my macbook flying across a stage because I tripped on a usb cable.
 
or worry about my macbook flying across a stage because I tripped on a usb cable.

See, that's *the* crucial stuff. And hence the reason for me to start this very thread, because I want to look at all possible solutions before starting such a thing.
Not getting into it any deeper right now (soccer time ahead...), but ideally there'd be zero cables running from stage directly into the computer. If at all, they'd run into a small patch bay. And it'd defenitely be no USB cables but plain MIDI ones. And maybe one audio cable (as I don't want to go wireless and as I think I want a real wah on stage). In total, it'd be one 9V power cable, two audio cables (one input, one output to a wedge) and one MIDI cable nicely bundled in a snake and then running into a small patch bay. Nothing would ever directly connect to the computer. And it's also the reason why I don't want to put anything onto any stand, so all cables would be running flat on the ground.
 
This is actually quite trivial in both Mainstage and Gig Performer. In fact, they're pretty much made for that kinda thing.
Yes, it's still a lot of homework, but you really only do that once (and only adjust some things when using different plugins).

Even with Mainstage, the control you can get with MIDI falls far short of what can be done with a modeler and a dedicated foot controller. This will be the achilles heel of a computer-based rig.
 
Even with Mainstage, the control you can get with MIDI falls far short of what can be done with a modeler and a dedicated foot controller. This will be the achilles heel of a computer-based rig.

Well, from all I know, it'd be sufficient for my needs. Gig Performer defenitely would be.
And btw, I'm not even sure I'd agree with the general premise.
 
And btw, I'm not even sure I'd agree with the general premise.

There are quite a few things you are familiar with on your modeler, e.g. AxeFX, foot controller that can't be done with midi control over plugin parameters. If you don't need any of those features, you'll be fine, but it's a significant step down in capability.
 
I would never. Ever. EVER. Use a FAS rig with a 3rd party midi controller. Too much clunky programming involved. I know, G66 prices are prohibitive; I get it. But the midi option wouldn't even enter my mind in the first place.

I'd save up your money for the Stadium and keep going with what you have for now vs. pivoting that money towards a computer rig. Or just pull the trigger and let the chips fall where they may :rofl
 
I'd save up your money for the Stadium and keep going with what you have for now vs. pivoting that money towards a computer rig.

See, I don't need a new rig just for some standard guitar sounds. But I may want a new rig for some wicked stuff. At this very moment, the Stadium would not deliver that wicked stuff.
Sure, I'm still interested in it as it would be the perfect form factor, plus usability seems to be great.
But out of all the reasons why I'm thinking about a computer based rig, none of them could be matched by any actually existing hardware modeler.
 
See, I don't need a new rig just for some standard guitar sounds. But I may want a new rig for some wicked stuff. At this very moment, the Stadium would not deliver that wicked stuff.
Sure, I'm still interested in it as it would be the perfect form factor, plus usability seems to be great.
But out of all the reasons why I'm thinking about a computer based rig, none of them could be matched by any actually existing hardware modeler.
Nyc Mayoral Primary GIF by GIPHY News
 
Which things for instance?

I don't know if you're pulling my leg or not :giggle: . Assuming you're serious: scribble strips, tuner, auto-engage, LED colors, mini display, update on preset load, tap tempo, control over the inevitable functions that don't have midi support, response curves, hold functions, etc. The list of things that are impossible or difficult with midi is pretty long. Maybe you don't need any of those features or you're comfortable with the work it takes to get them with a midi controller, in which case you'll be fine, but my point is: using midi instead of a dedicated foot controller means giving up quite a bit. I would even say that's the most significant downside of a computer-based rig.
 
Not trying to be rude or sarcastic, but that's kiiiiiiinda your bag with every rig, be it hardware digital modeler; amp+pedals, or laptop innit?

It always was with my digital rigs, but not at all with my tube amp + pedals rig.

That’s one of the things I’m loving so much about going back to analog. The rig I’m playing right now took me less than 5 min to hook up a few pedals on a board and dial the amp and I haven’t had to touch anything in over a month
 
It always was with my digital rigs, but not at all with my tube amp + pedals rig.

That’s one of the things I’m loving so much about going back to analog. The rig I’m playing right now took me less than 5 min to hook up a few pedals on a board and dial the amp and I haven’t had to touch anything in over a month
How many pedals, amps, cabs, and loads did you try out before settling on what you're using? Always seems like there's as much time spent thinking/pondering/swapping in the analog world as there is tinkering in the digital world.
 
How many pedals, amps, cabs, and loads did you try out before settling on what you're using? Always seems like there's as much time spent thinking/pondering/swapping in the analog world as there is tinkering in the digital world.

Since I got back into an analog rig:

One amp
One backup amp
One cab
One load
One speaker

Lots of pedals, but only because I love pedals and I really enjoy that part. So it’s by choice, not necessity.
 
So, I would like to gather some opinions and informations, do a bit of brainstorming and maybe collect some ideas for future reference.

The reason I am now thinking about such a setup again (I've been there already and even used a laptop based kinda hybrid rig for two musical productions way back already) is that, as I got my Tonex One pedals, I fooled around a lot more with guitar amp (and related) plugins than usually. I'm also trying to sort out some of that large pile of plugin mess, so I tested quite some on guitars along the way.

---

Possibly the most important observation: Regarding core guitar tones, what I have available within my DAW is *much* more than sufficient for absolutely all use cases I could ever imagine. There's absolutely no need to wait for whatever company to release a new line of modeling hardware just because of the core tones. The combination of things such as NAM, Tonex, HX Native, Amplitube and what have you allows me to dial in the most fantastic tones already.
The best thing being that, as I own both Helix and Tonex hardware, I have alread put the most of these core sounds through some live paces, and they stood up so well that there's absolutely nothing missing for me.

---

Next: Unlike with hardware, I don't have to wait for any hardware company to perhaps come up with some features or tonal options I'd like to have in my daily arsenal.
It's all there already, really. Here's a few examples:

- If you have read some of my posts regarding amp modeling hardware, you will know how much I would love something like a global block functionality implemented. But so far, nobody but Boss and FAS is offering this - and both have some serious shortcomings. With a computer based setup, this could be realised, even sort of easily (both Mainstage and Gig Performer, which would be the two main contenders as live hosts for me, allow for such a setup).

- In general, I would love to have my live rig to work every bit as a loop/MIDI switcher controlled hybrd rig. These have always delivered the best happy medium between quick access/tweakability while still offering more or less complexed patch switches without tap dancing. No current hardware modeler allows me to set up anything like that on the same level even as even my lowlier hybrid setups. A computer based setup would however deliver that, pretty much ins spades even.

- I just happen to like quite some FX that simply aren't there in the hardware modeling world, unless I'd combine several units, spend a lot of money and have a lot of configuration tinkering to do.
Nifty filters (such as the most excellent free Two Filters plugin), incredible delays (such as UVI's Relayer), fantastic reverbs (such as NI's Raum or any IR-based reverb), incredible phasers, granular pitch madness, wicked step filters (such as to be found in U-He's most incredible Uhbik series), it's all there already. And I can add anything at any time.

- Even guitar-to-MIDI would be possible without any dedicated hardware. I don't exactly need that, but you never know...

- If I wanted to come up with some advanced live looping, that'd be zero issues, even Ableton Live Lite allows for more than each and every hardware based solution out there already.

There'd possibly be way more examples, but I'll leave it at that for now.

---

Another important observation: Apart from Jam Origin's MIDI guitar (which I have no real need for) and a live host (easily sorted by purchasing Mainstage for a mere €35), I own all of that stuff (and then some, in fact quite some...) already.

---

That should be it for the opening post, will get into my hardware considerations next...
So, I recently did this. I even did a live show with it! I used an RME Babyface Pro since it received power via USB. Gig Performer is the plugin host I used, and program and MC8 Pro (wireless BT, but I think I actually used a USB C cable because of power). So long story short, it worked perfectly. Got a lot of compliments on my tone; specifically wet effects (can't beat Valhalla reverbs imo).

Longer story - this was a long journey. It was a hobby that I maintained for months before actually trying it. I stressed tested to see if latency was going to be an issue. UA, and Strymon plugins are the most resource heavy I have. So I used 5 Strymon plugins, and at least that many UA. latency was under 100ms. So that shouldn't be an issue. HOWEVER, I haven't used it since. Only because I don't like the aesthetics of a laptop on a laptop stand next to me on stage. I'm currently kicking around the idea of a MacMini, RME, and MC8 on a pedalboard. In fact, I already have everything setup on the Mac. Just haven't had time to seriously look into pedalboards.

**EDIT** 27ms latency, not 100. I was doing two things at once sadly and typed that into the wrong window.
 
Last edited:
Guys like EJ got it right, get you 3 core sounds and milk TF out of 'em. :LOL:

Doesn't matter if it's digital or analog, just pick 3 and add a little spice as needed.

Not trying to be a stinker @Sascha Franck , you do what you feel you need to do. :knit
 
Assuming you're serious: scribble strips, tuner, auto-engage, LED colors, mini display, update on preset load, tap tempo, control over the inevitable functions that don't have midi support, response curves, hold functions, etc.

Pretty much all of them can be realized with a decent MIDI controller. You should possibly update your knowledge about these things.
And out of the things exclusive to a proprietary controller (which are very few), I don't need any.

but my point is: using midi instead of a dedicated foot controller means giving up quite a bit.

Not at all. Some functions aren't available, that's true, but in general, a decent MIDI controller running into a competent host mops the floor with each and every hardware modeler there is, regarding overall flexibility and functionality, the FAS systems included.

How many pedals, amps, cabs, and loads did you try out before settling on what you're using? Always seems like there's as much time spent thinking/pondering/swapping in the analog world as there is tinkering in the digital world.

Exactly. And that particular thing is nothing I'd have to think about with a computerbased setup, as I have my channel strip presets done in Logic already, ready to be loaded into Mainstage instantly.

Guys like EJ got it right, get you 3 core sounds and milk TF out of 'em.

That's an entirely different sound philosophy that I absolutely respect. But with the setup I have in my mind, it's very obviously just not what I'm going for. You wouldn't tell Robert Fripp or Adrian Belew to go for an EJ approach either (and no, I'm not looking after Frippertronic sounds).
 
Back
Top