The Latency Thread?

[Jim Roseberry]

What about guitar amp modeling plugins, are they typically latent?
What if I have monitor calibration plugin on the main bus which I send the guitar plugins to?

As Sascha mentioned, most guitar amp-sim plugins aren't latent (above the ASIO buffer size).

A monitor calibration plugin is likely latent.
If you have Reaper installed, you can load the plugin and see the amount of latency (in samples).
If reaper shows 0 samples... it's not latent.

 

[Jim Roseberry]

But that's just horrible. All latent tracks need to be played early (which is very well possible by simply raising the pre-roll). It's exactly what Logic and Cubase are doing.

Never really affects me... as I don't use latent plugins while tracking.
Have all the major DAW applications... so it's easy to workaround (if ever necessary).

What happens if you have a latent plugin on a track where you're monitoring in realtime?
Can't be played early...

 

[James Freeman]

Another piece of information.
The PDC override also applies to Bus effects, so all effects in the current project, latency is still added if the sound goes through the latent plugin itself.

ARC 3 that I use to calibrate my monitors has a Natural and Linear phase options, Natural does not seem to add latency.

 

[Sascha Franck]

What happens if you have a latent plugin on a track where you're monitoring in realtime?
Can't be played early...

I know. That's impossible. And I don't use any such plugins on "live threads". But for anything else, it's very well possible and there's no need to switch of latency compensation (which, fwiw, wouldn't help when you used a latent plugin on a monitored track, either).

 

[pipelineaudio]

Never really affects me... as I don't use latent plugins while tracking.
Have all the major DAW applications... so it's easy to workaround (if ever necessary).

What happens if you have a latent plugin on a track where you're monitoring in realtime?
Can't be played early...

I get a lot of shit for insisting that where possible, every plug we make has a zero-latency mode. I very much like to use my mixing plugs as I'm tracking, and will be building my final mix while tracking if possible. It's really weird how some serious disconnect has built up between people who just mix and people who track and mix

 

[Orvillain]

But that's just horrible. All latent tracks need to be played early (which is very well possible by simply raising the pre-roll). It's exactly what Logic and Cubase are doing.

What crack are you smoking??

A DAW cannot play a latent track earlier, because it hasn't even been computed at the time you'd want to ideally be hearing it!!!

 

[pipelineaudio]

I don't think he's suggesting time travel, he just means relative to the delay that PDC adds

 

[Orvillain]

Then I don't know what "All latent tracks need to be played early" is meant to mean, other than time travel.

 

[Sascha Franck]

What crack are you smoking??

A DAW cannot play a latent track earlier, because it hasn't even been computed at the time you'd want to ideally be hearing it!!!

It can. All tracks with latent plugins are started earlier than those without. As easy as that. It's how PDC works.
I'd really like you to check some things before coming up with ad hominems. Thanks.

 

[Sascha Franck]

And fwiw, of course that's provable by some very easy experiments.
In case you're interested, I'll get into the details when I'm back home.

 

[Orvillain]

It can. All tracks with latent plugins are started earlier than those without. As easy as that. It's how PDC works.
I'd really like you to check some things before coming up with ad hominems. Thanks.

Which DAW's do that?








PDC doesn't work that way at all.

PDC starts other tracks later. Not earlier.

https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/articles/209072409-Delay-Compensation-FAQ#:~:text=What%20is%20Delay%20Compensation%3F,in%20sync%20with%20each%2Dother.

Take for example three tracks: Track 1 contains several devices which brings its overall latency to 100ms, Track 2 has a latency of 20ms and Track 3 has a latency of 50ms. With Delay Compensation active, all tracks are delayed to the longest track latency time; therefore Tracks 1, 2 and 3 are adjusted so they all have 100ms of latency.

 

[Sascha Franck]

And fwiw,

PDC starts other tracks later. Not earlier.

Wrong. In that case you couldn't monitor through software along with a track with latent plugins on it. But that's perfectly possible.

 

[Orvillain]

And fwiw,


Wrong. In that case you couldn't monitor through software along with a track with latent plugins on it. But that's perfectly possible.

You are 1000000% incorrect here.

PDC does not bring tracks forwards/closer/sooner in time. It pushes tracks further/ahead/later in time. This is the truth. Go and check the documentation for your DAW's.

I don't know about other DAWs, but In Studio One when you monitor through a track with latent plugins and you enable low latency mode, the latent plugins are automatically disabled.

 

[Sascha Franck]

And fwiw, that's also why there's a certain gap when you press "start".

 

[Sascha Franck]

You are 1000000% incorrect here.

No. The good thing being that I can prove it.

 

[Orvillain]

No. The good thing being that I can prove it.

I've literally just posted a link for Ableton that totally contradicts your assertion. It's written in very clear words.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Set up project with 2 tracks.
1: Drums with latent plugin on them.
2: Guitar amp ready for monitoring.

Will your guitar be delayed by the amount of latency of the plugin on track 1? No.
Will the latent plugin on track 1 be disabled? No.

So how does that work?

 

[Sascha Franck]

I've literally just posted a link for Ableton that totally contradicts your assertion. It's written in very clear words.

Do exactly what I said in my previous post. Then we can continue discussing.

 

[Jim Roseberry]

Then I don't know what "All latent tracks need to be played early" is meant to mean, other than time travel.

If the latent track was latent by say 441 samples, it would have to be shifted in time to play 441 samples earlier.
There would have to be enough pre-roll to allow this.
If the latency was say 2 seconds (like in James' example above)... it could get a bit annoying as playback would be sluggish to engage.

Obviously this wouldn't work for tracks that you're monitoring in realtime (just tracks that have already been recorded).

 

[Orvillain]

Set up project with 2 tracks.
1: Drums with latent plugin on them.
2: Guitar amp ready for monitoring.

Will your guitar be delayed by the amount of latency of the plugin on track 1? No.
Will the latent plugin on track 1 be disabled? No.

So how does that work?

That isn't a demonstration of PDC.

When you're monitoring, the DAW is using different threads for processing the signals to be monitored, to ensure it can keep the audio in sync. That's why in your situation, if you put your latent plugin on the master buss, all of a sudden the signal on track 2 will now no longer be latency-free. Because the signals will be merged and processed all in the same thread, thanks to your master buss processing.

PDC is something different. PDC is about ensuring that playback tracks with latent plugins are kept in sync with tracks without latent plugins.