Strat players. Floating or decked?

[mbenigni]

It's the tension plus semitone arrangement that is solid in that setup. With an angled claw I rarely ran into tuning issues.
Go argue with someone else, it worked fabulously for me.

My Strat is setup with Carl’s method, and I’ve done several for a friend in the same way - all excellent. But in retrospect I really think the claw angle is meaningless. The trem itself can only move in one direction according to the two pivot points, so the only meaningful effect your efforts have is to change the overall tension.

Targeting meaningful intervals with spring tension is great advice. The claw angle is a red herring.

 

[FuzzyAce]

My Strat is setup with Carl’s method, and I’ve done several for a friend in the same way - all excellent. But in retrospect I really think the claw angle is meaningless. The trem itself can only move in one direction according to the two pivot points, so the only meaningful effect your efforts have is to change the overall tension.

Targeting meaningful intervals with spring tension is great advice. The claw angle is a red herring.

The springs are always connected though and at different tension relative to each other, regardless of dives or pull-ups. It's just another piece in the overall system.

 

[DrewJD82]

View attachment 44512

Which trem are you using on your strat @DrewJD82?

That one is a Callaham, but on my other Strat it's a standard MIM bridge and holds tuning the same way. As long as the nut is cut right and all the slots and contact points are lubed, you can go apeshit on 'em!

 

[mbenigni]

Just sort of. I have been fooling around with an easy to insert little wooden wedge (between block and wood in the cavity), and while I didn't notice much improvement on sustain/decay, it was noticeable when hitting hard, as the vibrato always does a little "purring". But on the two guitars I fooled around with, it wasn't getting much in the way (if at all) - and I really just love floating trems, so blocking them is no option.
I also had a Rockinger Black Box (pretty much the blueprint for any "Tremol-Nos" and whatever there is) installed ages ago and just hated it even more than a blocked trem.
So, for me it's either floating or no trem at all.

Fwiw, I still wish someone would come up with a solution such as on the Steinberger TransTrem guitars. Blocked when not needed, floating when in use. It doesn't get any better, really.

Pre-refined Parker Fly also has an interesting feature where you can just push a lever on the back between three positions for float, dive only, and fixed.

 

[Chocol8]

I'm more concerned with tension and tuning stability. Does spring tension matter or not?

If the bridge is floating, the (total) tension of the springs is equal to the (total) tension of the strings. How could it not be?

 

[mbenigni]

The springs are always connected though and at different tension relative to each other, regardless of dives or pull-ups. It's just another piece in the overall system.

I don’t really know what to say to this. As I said, my results with Carl’s method were always excellent. I just can’t explain why, so I’m inclined to think the claw angle was not actually playing a role. (I don’t think it’s doing any harm either, FWIW.)

 

[Eagle]

Spring tension total on one side and strings tension total on the other reaching an equilibrium with the g able to pull up three semitones is the set up. The rest is horseshit.

 

[Eagle]

I don’t really know what to say to this. As I said, my results with Carl’s method were always excellent. I just can’t explain why, so I’m inclined to think the claw angle was not actually playing a role.

It can’t.

 

[FuzzyAce]

I don’t really know what to say to this. As I said, my results with Carl’s method were always excellent. I just can’t explain why, so I’m inclined to think the claw angle was not actually playing a role.

I know it does. The claw positioning has more to do with balancing tension in the overall system. String gauges matter of course. Type of springs too. It's just dialing it all in based on tension, tuning stability, and pitch needs. Straight forward really. The pitch/semitone goal is the creative part, everything else is mechanical.

 

[DrewJD82]

I joined HugeRacksInc in February of 2005, IIRR, which makes it just over 20 years now that I've gotten to see Andy tortured by the Carl V claw bit.

I recently decked my other Strat's trem, which I'll keep it that way until I get a Tele. I definitely experience more snap/pop from the strings when the trem springs aren't flexing from plucking/pulling on the strings.

 

[Eagle]

I know it does. The claw positioning has more to do with balancing tension in the overall system. String gauges matter of course. Type of springs too. It's just dialing it all in based on tension, tuning stability, and pitch needs. Straight forward really. The pitch/semitone goal is the creative part, everything else is mechanical.

You can only set the pitch of one string the others all sit on the baseplate and move together.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Guitarists that use something like a Roland GK3 pickup couldn't care less about how other's see changes on instrument's looks

 

[Eagle]

Or sounds

 

[FuzzyAce]

You can only set the pitch of one string the others all sit on the baseplate and move together.

I respect your views on guitar and what you do. But on this I trust my personal experience more because I'm the one playing the guitar and experiencing the results of my efforts.

 

[Sascha Franck]

I will try it.

Fwiw, not that you wouldn't be aware of it, but it obviously won't work once there's some extra routing below the back of the trem plate (as with most FRs). That's why I like to have no extra routing there for anything that is a standard kinda strat-ish trem plate.

 

[Eagle]

I respect your views on guitar and what you do. But on this I trust my personal experience more because I'm the one playing the guitar and experiencing the results of my efforts.

I’m not saying it’s not working. I am saying the CV set up is not responsible for your results. I am just stating the facts. Straighten out the claw and those pitch differences won’t change, nor will the tuning stability. I can not condone a video that say the results are one thing when that can not be the reason for the results. It’s just counting.

 

[Eagle]

Fwiw, not that you wouldn't be aware of it, but it obviously won't work once there's some extra routing below the back of the trem plate (as with most FRs). That's why I like to have no extra routing there for anything that is a standard kinda strat-ish trem plate.

I’ll set it on a vintage style Strat.

 

[Chocol8]

I know it does. The claw positioning has more to do with balancing tension in the overall system. String gauges matter of course. Type of springs too. It's just dialing it all in based on tension, tuning stability, and pitch needs. Straight forward really. The pitch/semitone goal is the creative part, everything else is mechanical.

Right, if you have heavier/higher tension low strings, the claw angle might help the system balance better and operate more smoothly without a torquing force on the trem. I don't know how it could physically change the pitch of the strings at the point the trem is topped out or bottomed out though.

 

[Eagle]

Right, if you have heavier/higher tension low strings, the claw angle might help the system balance better and operate more smoothly without a torquing force on the trem. I don't know how it could physically change the pitch of the strings at the point the trem is topped out or bottomed out though.

The angle doesn’t affect anything except the total spring equilibrium.

 

[FuzzyAce]

I’m not saying it’s not working. I am saying the CV set up is not responsible for your results. I am just stating the facts. Straighten out the claw and those pitch differences won’t change, nor will the tuning stability.

That's just not true. I DID have it that way before on multiple guitars, my tuning improved significantly when I tried CV's method. Like he said in the video, and I said, it's his pitch plan + tension plan that creates a system that stays in tune and gives the desired results. Pretty simple.