Strat players. Floating or decked?

[Chocol8]

Anyone want a go on explaining the claw angle works but the trem arm on one end is ok and it should not be in the middle.

Two different rotational axis with different geometry to different centers of rotation having different impacts on the pivot points of the trem.

The main torque from the arm causes rotation on the axis the trem is designed to rotate on. Unbalanced force from the strings or springs puts a six force on the connecting points which could lead to some binding if the imbalance is too high or there is too much friction in the system. That would be seen as an impact on tuning stability.

 

[Chocol8]

Highlight anything in my explanation that is not correct.

See my prior post. Your physics understanding has some holes in it.

 

[Chocol8]

Sure, but given that all these things are pretty solid, I can hardly believe it makes that much of a difference. I may try it one day, though (but then, I don't have any tuning issue on any guitar).

Try it to an extreme. It is a lot like tuning issues from a 3x3 headstock. A good nut can make the string angles a non-issue in practice, but that doesn’t mean the angles can’t lead to binding and tuning issues, especially with a bad nut.

You don’t need perfect spring and string balance with a good trem but if it is too far off or the trem has too much friction, it will matter.

 

[Eagle]

See my prior post. Your physics understanding has some holes in it.

No it doesn’t. Address my points. I understand perfectly what you saying but the circumstances you assume are not correct.

 

[DrewJD82]

All I'm gonna say is that my Strat does not and has not ever had the Carl V setup in it and I'm not exactly having problems going all Marty McFly on that shit.

 

[mbenigni]

Bottom line is, if you set up a trem using one technique and it works perfectly, it’s easy to convince yourself that you have empirical evidence that the technique is effective. But you haven’t really proven the results stem from the technique unless you’ve tested all alternatives and found that they cannot produce the same results.

I think the CV video prompted a lot of people (myself included) to be more methodical than they had been prior, resulting in some great setups. But it doesn’t change the fact that trems pivot on one axis. (Unless they are really, really broken LOL.)

It’s a classic case of correlation vs. causation.

 

[joebloggs]

Floating

 

[Sascha Franck]

All I'm gonna say is that my Strat does not and has not ever had the Carl V setup in it and I'm not exactly having problems going all Marty McFly on that shit.

Same here. All I did when the spring resonance was getting too annoying (before applying foam or - ultimately - silent springs) was to experiment with slightly different claw angles to somehow alter the resonance. Didn't help much, so now it's pretty much at the default angle.
The only coincidence being that I started making use of the fact that in most setups the D and B strings detune by the same amount (almost TransTrem alike), so I always adjust the spring tension that it allows for 2 semitones of upbending before it touches the body. That way, whenever I make use of that "feature", things will be in tune whenever I pull the whammy bar all up. And as said, for me that seems to work just great on all kinda sort-of-standard Strat-alike trems, the saddles are just the way they should be (IMO at least).

 

[JasonE]

I always run my trems floating. I like the way they feel even if I don't use it that often. If I wanted it decked, I will pick up a guitar with a fixed bridge. I tend to take one of each to gigs.

 

[ChordInversion]

Floating, the way Leo intended.

 

[Mikael Dez]

I always deck that shit.

 

[Eagle]

Pre-refined Parker Fly also has an interesting feature where you can just push a lever on the back between three positions for float, dive only, and fixed.

Not fixed it just put a block in to take away the up pull. I had one for years, it didn’t work very well.
The problem was you can’t put a block in the up pull space without some play . To actually work in down only mode you needed to add a bit of spring tension to get it to rest properly on the block. BUT now when you switch the trem to float it goes sharp by the added spring tension. You get the same issue on the Tno and all switchable down bend systems.

 

[maguchi]

I been floating my Strat trems since I got my first Strat almost 40 years ago. I'll use a fixed bridge guitar to do unison bends and generally for any music with a lot of bends. Usually I'll pick up the Strat if I want to use the trem on it. I like the 6 screw trems better than the 2 screw ones. I just seem to have better feel and control with a 6 screw trem. You do have to check your tuning more often if you use the trem agressively. Like @PLX said earlier in this thread "you give up something to get something."

 

[gearJunkie]

Both of my Strats have floating trems assisted by the Super-Vee MagLok.

Maglok Anti-Deflection Device - NEW!

The next generation Mag-Lok is here! Designed to eliminate string sag and detuning during double-stop bends. We offer the Maglok in two pull strengths. The Black Edition for most Strats and Strat copies and the Gold Edition for 25% more stabilizing force. The re-design offers a rugged...

www.super-vee.com

 

[Eagle]

Both of my Strats have floating trems assisted by the Super-Vee MagLok.

Maglok Anti-Deflection Device - NEW!

The next generation Mag-Lok is here! Designed to eliminate string sag and detuning during double-stop bends. We offer the Maglok in two pull strengths. The Black Edition for most Strats and Strat copies and the Gold Edition for 25% more stabilizing force. The re-design offers a rugged...

www.super-vee.com

They are good.

 

[bucephalus]

I'm gonna go with whoever gets in the last word...

You'll likely want a chair and some snacks. Perhaps a sleeping bag as well.

 

[bucephalus]

Also, decked and blocked for me, I have a bad habit of resting on the bridge so floating sounds awful for me. I'd like a hard tail but not likely to spend the cash as I prefer p90s and humbuckers in general anyway.

 

[mbenigni]

Not fixed it just put a block in to take away the up pull. I had one for years, it didn’t work very well.
The problem was you can’t put a block in the up pull space without some play . To actually work in down only mode you needed to add a bit of spring tension to get it to rest properly on the block. BUT now when you switch the trem to float it goes sharp by the added spring tension. You get the same issue on the Tno and all switchable down bend systems.

I've got mine in my hands right now. I was mistaken: there are only two positions on that lever. Parker cites three different modes here:

https://flyclone.com/_files/Manuals/Parker_Fly_Handbook_1995.pdf

But what they call "fixed" mode is basically the dive-only mode with a shit-ton of spring tension.

I personally would never use the dive only mode because of the "click" @Sascha Franck mentioned on returning to rest position. (It's much louder and more annoying than on a similarly configured Strat or whatever.) But the lever can be useful when you want to quickly grab the guitar as set up to float in one tuning, (partly) lock the bridge, and put it in a tuning with lower overall string tension.

 

[Eagle]

I've got mine in my hands right now. I was mistaken: there are only two positions on that lever. Parker cites three different modes here:

https://flyclone.com/_files/Manuals/Parker_Fly_Handbook_1995.pdf

But what they call "fixed" mode is basically the dive-only mode with a shit-ton of spring tension.

I personally would never use the dive only mode because of the "click" @Sascha Franck mentioned on returning to rest position. (It's much louder and more annoying than on a similarly configured Strat or whatever.) But the lever can be useful when you want to quickly grab the guitar as set up to float in one tuning, (partly) lock the bridge, and put it in a tuning with lower overall string tension.

I sold mine when the entire electrics became basically unsupported . Even the jack . Unique board mounted pots and parts with a flexible pcb linking everything.

 

[mbenigni]

I sold mine when the entire electrics became basically unsupported . Even the jack . Unique board mounted pots and parts with a flexible pcb linking everything.

Yeah, the electronics are a PITA, and demand a 9V, and don't actually sound all that great. I've frequently toyed with the idea of ripping all the (once upon a time) high tech crap out of mine and wiring the two humbuckers in a conventional, passive configuration, but the guitar is too valuable stock. Kind of paints you into a corner.