Specs, DAW Computer, Opinions

[Whizzinby]

Since I’m not buying a new interface, why not buy a new computer!

I have a 2-3 year old M1 Mac Mini. At the time I thought I’d be clever and upgrade to 16gb of ram. The thing sat in a closet for a couple years until I broke down and forced myself to record. (Or until Drew made the TGF challenge lol) Anyway the upgrade to 16gb of Ram looks like an inspired decision because honesty I’m not sure if 8GB would have cut it. By the end of a mix the computer gets close to initiating the self destruct sequence, audio starts chopping, midi sync errors etc.

I typically run a distorted guitar bus, and a clean guitar bus to minimize the plugs I’m running. Typically I’m running 4 (GetGood Drums, a bass plug, and two guitar plugs) Once mixing starts I then add in Soothe2, Neutron and Ozone which is when the computer promptly wants to start melting.

Of course you can’t upgrade the RAM on the mini. So, I’ve been kicking the cab on getting one of the new M2 minis. The standard version maxes out with 24gb of ram which makes me a little squirrelly as I’m not sure an extra 8GB of ram will future proof me. (Though I’m not sure what the M2 would provide that may help as well) The M2 pro can load 32GB of Ram, but there is a price premium on that bad boy. (Not that I mind paying it, but still)

Curious how you guys spec out your DAW computers. I’d like to get something that I’m not having to worry about running a bunch of stuff on, both now and for a couple years. Is ram pretty much the key driver here? What are you guys using?

 

[hemmelight]

The M1 machines are really powerful - certainly compared to previous Intel Macs. I can't see what your projects look like obviously, but I'm really surprised to hear that you're having trouble with hardware limits.

Out of curiosity, are you rendering any of your tracks to audio once the effects and/or virtual instruments are applied?
Or are you trying to run every single plugin all at once in real time?

 

[Sascha Franck]

Why would you be updating at all? With that little amount of work you're throwing at it, it'll be good for years to come.

 

[jellodog]

Agree with @hemmelight that it seems odd that the M1 can't cope with that sort of audio processing - I'm not running those plugins myself though, so I don't know. Also agree with @Sascha Franck - M1 + 16GB RAM really ought be fine for some time to come.

@Whizzinby Are the plugins native ARM binaries for the M1 processor, or have they been compiled for Intel and are running under rosetta translation? That might slow things down a bit. Then again, Rosetta usually runs at about 80% effeciency; which isn't bad at all.

Have you tried tweaking the size of your audio buffer?

 

[Gearzilla]

Are the plugins native ARM binaries for the M1 processor, or have been compiled for Intel and are running under rosetta translation? That might slow things down a bit.

AKA…

Thanks NDSP plugins for hogging the resources since they’re not all Native yet.

 

[jellodog]

AKA…

Thanks NDSP plugins for hogging the resources since they’re not all Native yet.

Oh shit! Didn't realise it was NDSP plugins, and that we've stumbled into that loop of not-ported-to-ARM complaints so early in a thread

 

[JT]

 

[Whizzinby]

The M1 machines are really powerful - certainly compared to previous Intel Macs. I can't see what your projects look like obviously, but I'm really surprised to hear that you're having trouble with hardware limits.

Out of curiosity, are you rendering any of your tracks to audio once the effects and/or virtual instruments are applied?
Or are you trying to run every single plugin all at once in real time?

I don’t even know what that means so I’m assuming I’m assuming I’m just running everything all at once.

 

[Whizzinby]

Agree with @hemmelight that it seems odd that the M1 can't cope with that sort of audio processing - I'm not running those plugins myself though, so I don't know. Also agree with @Sascha Franck - M1 + 16GB RAM really oufght be fine for some time to come.

@Whizzinby Are the plugins native ARM binaries for the M1 processor, or have they been compiled for Intel and are running under rosetta translation? That might slow things down a bit. Then again, Rosetta usually run at about 80% effeciency; which isn't bad at all.

Have you tried tweaking the size of your audio buffer?

Yeah all Neural Plugs + GGD. Then all the IZotope crap once I’m “mixing”.

 

[Whizzinby]

Oh s**t! Didn't realise it was NDSP plugins, and that we've stumbled into that loop of not-ported-to-ARM complaints so early in a thread

Neural’dTM

 

[laxu]

Let's not forget that plenty of hit records have been made on computers that today would seem like a total potato. Even if the use of VST plugins has skyrocketed and their complexity increased, a M1 Mac with 16 GB should be more than capable of handling quite a few tracks.

Native ARM vs Rosetta translation shouldn't be that big of a deal until you reach "a shitload of tracks and plugins" levels.

 

[hemmelight]

I don’t even know what that means so I’m assuming I’m assuming I’m just running everything all at once.

Sorry, lol. It means that when using an intensive plugin or instrument (like virtual drums or whatever) then you convert your MIDI track to audio to save on CPU and RAM if you aren't going to make any changes to it. Then you can remove the plugin / virtual instrument from that track because you don't need it running any more. In Logic this is called "bouncing to audio" or "bounce in place", I believe. I'm sure every DAW has a similar feature.

Also, if it's not a MIDI instrument (like, let's say you are using a Neural DSP amp sim for rhythm guitars) then once you've recorded your track and have that specific audio file done you can then deactivate or remove the plugin from that track to save resources. If you had like 6 tracks of guitars on one project then there's no need to keep the amp plugin running on every single track the whole time.

I'm sure there's a more elegant way to explain that, but that's what I got.
Forgive me for messing up terminology on this stuff, I'm certainly not a pro either.

 

[Gearzilla]

Neural’dTM

HX Stomp deal with Native, Metallurgy, and Cubase LE is back.

 

[la szum]

Sorry, lol. It means that when using an intensive plugin or instrument (like virtual drums or whatever) then you convert your MIDI track to audio to save on CPU and RAM if you aren't going to make any changes to it. Then you can remove the plugin / virtual instrument from that track because you don't need it running any more. In Logic this is called "bouncing to audio" or "bounce in place", I believe. I'm sure every DAW has a similar feature.

Also, if it's not a MIDI instrument (like, let's say you are using a Neural DSP amp sim for rhythm guitars) then once you've recorded your track and have that specific audio file done you can then deactivate or remove the plugin from that track to save resources. If you had like 6 tracks of guitars on one project then there's no need to keep the amp plugin running on every single track the whole time.

I'm sure there's a more elegant way to explain that, but that's what I got.
Forgive me for messing up terminology on this stuff, I'm certainly not a pro either.

Great breakdown!

That is one thing I learned this past winter using a Drum VST. Very handy!

 

[TheTrueZoltan!]

I own an M1 iMac and have never run out of processing power, even with a lot of plugins. Only using software/plugins that run natively on Apple Silicon makes a lot of difference. Most NDSP stuff unfortunately doesn‘t. The newest versions of Ozone, Neutron, Soothe and Kontakt Player 7 (for GGD) should be fine, though.

My recommendation would be to not buy a new Mac. Take a look at your software instead. Scrap all the stuff from companies that still haven‘t managed to offer M1 native versions of their software. Once you run everything natively, your M1 Mac Mini will slay dragons.

What DAW are you using and are you running that in native or Rosetta mode (right click on the app in Finder => Get Info and look if the „Open using Rosetta“ box is checked or not)? Make sure to uncheck that box.

 

[Whizzinby]

Let's not forget that plenty of hit records have been made on computers that today would seem like a total potato. Even if the use of VST plugins has skyrocketed and their complexity increased, a M1 Mac with 16 GB should be more than capable of handling quite a few tracks.

Native ARM vs Rosetta translation shouldn't be that big of a deal until you reach "a shitload of tracks and plugins" levels.

Never underestimate an idiot.

Sorry, lol. It means that when using an intensive plugin or instrument (like virtual drums or whatever) then you convert your MIDI track to audio to save on CPU and RAM if you aren't going to make any changes to it. Then you can remove the plugin / virtual instrument from that track because you don't need it running any more. In Logic this is called "bouncing to audio" or "bounce in place", I believe. I'm sure every DAW has a similar feature.

Also, if it's not a MIDI instrument (like, let's say you are using a Neural DSP amp sim for rhythm guitars) then once you've recorded your track and have that specific audio file done you can then deactivate or remove the plugin from that track to save resources. If you had like 6 tracks of guitars on one project then there's no need to keep the amp plugin running on every single track the whole time.

I'm sure there's a more elegant way to explain that, but that's what I got.
Forgive me for messing up terminology on this stuff, I'm certainly not a pro either.

Yeah once the thing starts getting bogged down I do typically deactivate plugs not actively used in the part I’m working on. I need to look into bouncing to audio on completed stuff, though it’s hard to know when done is done. lol

HX Stomp deal with Native, Metallurgy, and Cubase LE is back.

I looked at that the last time it got bundled. Hmm

I own an M1 iMac and have never run out of processing power, even with a lot of plugins. Only using software/plugins that run natively on Apple Silicon makes a lot of difference. Most NDSP stuff unfortunately doesn‘t. The newest versions of Ozone, Neutron, Soothe and Kontakt Player 7 (for GGD) should be fine, though.

My recommendation would be to not buy a new Mac. Take a look at your software instead. Scrap all the stuff from companies that still haven‘t managed to offer M1 native versions of their software. Once you run everything natively, your M1 Mac Mini will slay dragons.

What DAW are you using and are you running that in native or Rosetta mode (right click on the app in Finder => Get Info and look if the „Open using Rosetta“ box is checked or not)? Make sure to uncheck that box.

I use Logic. I’ll check that setting! Thanks man.

 

[TheTrueZoltan!]

What are your buffer settings in Logic? Once you start mixing (for which you don‘t need low latency) you can raise the buffer to get more processing headroom.

Ah, and another hint: Never keep an instrument track (like Kontakt / GGD) selected. Always select an audio track during playback, otherwise Logic‘s performance will drop significantly. It‘s one of Logic‘s little quirks.

 

[Whizzinby]

What are your buffer settings in Logic? Once you start mixing (for which you don‘t need low latency) you can raise the buffer to get more processing headroom.

Ah, and another hint: Never keep an instrument track (like Kontakt / GGD) selected. Always select an audio track during playback, otherwise Logic‘s performance will drop significantly. It‘s one of Logic‘s little quirks.

Not sure what my buffer settings are tbh. Probably the stock settings.

Interesting regarding not selecting an instrument track. I’ll keep an eye on that. I’m sure I’ve done that a time or two.

 

[TheTrueZoltan!]

Not sure what my buffer settings are tbh. Probably the stock settings. […]

Buffer settings are VERY important. Go to the Devices pane in Logic‘s Audio Preferences window and start with a an I/O Buffer Size of 128, that‘s usually a good starting point for most USB interfaces. As you start to increase the buffer (which means more processing headroom) you‘ll see that the latency will go up. You‘ll want to find a buffer setting that‘s a good compromise between enough processing headroom and acceptable latency. If you set the buffer too low, you will get playback hiccups when you add more plugins. If you set the buffer too high, you will start to feel the latency when playing guitar or bass.

 

[Sascha Franck]

I need to look into bouncing to audio on completed stuff, though it’s hard to know when done is done. lol

Look for the "freeze" option, which can be undone at any time you want.