Mongillo19
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It is a tad of a pain and you have to pay a $25 license transfer fee to the new owner
SoOoooN! [NDSP Morgan Amps Suite]
- Thread starter Lysander
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wharf rat
Roadie
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Just getting spooked again that NDSP is gonna abandon the platform.
Also I bought an amp and am happier with it in the room?
paisleywookiee
Rock Star
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I guess I could see that, and I like plugins too. But JFC Neural shit is overpriced.
wharf rat
Roadie
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I guess in the end, the QC solves a problem I never had. I’m just a bedroom guy who has a house and doesn’t have to worry about volume. I don’t record, etc.
Plus I’d rather spend half the cash on an attenuator now. Haha.
Enchilada Jones
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Yea I just edited my last post when I learned that.
MirrorProfiles
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compared to what though?
€95 if I was to buy this. That gets 3 amp models, a cabinet and pedals and presets etc. So €30 per amp model - which is in line with the sale prices from Softube/Mercuriall/Plugin Alliance/etc. Line 6 Metallurgy plugins are listed at about the same price. These things always end up on sale for 50% off, so for anyone who wants it but isn't in a rush, €50 seems pretty fair.
Likewise, if my options were to make a load of NAM models for 3 amps, as well as shooting IR's of a speaker with multiple mics and positions, I think I'd rather just cough up the money and have someone else do the work (with the benefit of having a GUI, standalone app, MIDI, support etc.
Can't really compare to full amp suites as they are different products, different aims, different compromises etc. Same goes for HW units which are catering to different needs
paisleywookiee
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Compared to Helix Native, S-Gear, hell even AmpliTube gives you a lot more. 3-4 amps for what they charge is insane.
Mongillo19
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Tbf that's a iLok thing not NDSP
Enchilada Jones
Roadie
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Ahh thanks! I’m glad my reaction didn’t name them because I assumed it was their greed at work.
So my assessment of the perpetrators character stands only now I know it was a totally different set of asshats.
paisleywookiee
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It’ll take more than that, dude. Try harder.
MirrorProfiles
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Helix and S-Gear don't have officially licensed models, Helix has no standalone version or unique GUI for each model. S gear has 6 amp models I think? I know S-gear has its fans but I couldn't really get tones I liked with it, and I don't really like the UI either, it feels more like Guitar Rig than something modern.
Its also a higher price of entry vs choosing things a la carte. Amplitube's expansions are priced at £99 each when not on sale which is somewhat in line (especially as Amplitube sounds worse and IK have possibly the most useless customer support in existence). All of the stuff you mentioned are more involved products where you typically have to build your own presets/routing and deal with clicking around a lot more. Its better to compare it to products like (with list prices as they all have regular sales):
- Softube (https://www.softube.com/marshall-plexi) - 1 amp, limited cab options, no pedals/fx=€99
- Mixwave (https://mixwave.com/collections/plugins/products/benson-chimera) - 2 amps, 1 cab, some fx etc - £143
- Bogren Digital (https://bogrendigital.com/products/mlc-s_zero-100) - 1 amp (3 channels), one cab, some FX etc - €99
- Mercuriall (https://mercuriall.com/cms/details_ampbox/1) - 1 amp per product, all channels, some cabs+FX etc - $89
- STL (https://www.stltones.com/products/tonality-josh-middleton) - 3 amps, some cabs+fx - $119
- Line 6 Metallurgy (https://line6.com/metallurgy-guitar-amp-plugin/) - 4 amps, several cabs, some FX - $99
- Nembrini (https://www.nembriniaudio.com/colle.../products/cali-axis-all-tube-guitar-amplifier) - 1 amp, no fx, some cabs - $137
- UAD Fender 55 Tweed Deluxe (https://www.uaudio.com/uad-plugins/guitar-bass/fender-55-dlx.html) - 1 amp, a few cabs, no FX - £199
- Plugin Alliance Fuchs Overdrive Supreme - 1 amp, a list of IR's, basic FX - $149
Helix Native is like $399 so it works out as better value if you tally up everything thats included, but you also buy more clutter, requires more work setting things up, no GUI's, no official involvement from amp companies, no standalone apps etc. I think the examples I posted above are better comparisons and they're all priced somewhat equally. I wish everything was Audio Assault prices but I also respect that making an amp sim and supporting it is going to cost. Having made a ton of NAM/ToneX/etc models and IR's myself, I don't mind paying money to support these developers to make and support their products.
I LOVE Helix Native, its one of my favourite plugins ever. But there is a reason why the Metallurgy plugins cost $99 each, as they cater to something different to what Helix Native is trying to do.
If $99 is too much for 3 amp models, what would a fair price be for an amp sim?
paisleywookiee
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I’d say $399 for Helix Native (I paid half) and $299 (I paid $199) for AmpliTube Max is fair. The nickel and diming of $99 here, $99 there doesn’t really appeal to me, at all, especially when the biggest problem is that they aren’t interoperable.
MirrorProfiles
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Presumably all the other products I listed above are overpriced too then? Is the whole amp sim marketplace a massive cashgrab?
My point is that its comparing apples and oranges though - you're happy to forego certain things to get a better price. You might not want to pay more to have nice GUI's for the gear, or a cut going to the original manufacturer. I actually quite often prefer having a more simple plugin with less clutter because I'm combining different plugins together. I basically never use Softube Amp Room over their individual amp plugins because its so much slower and clunkier for me to use when combining with other plugins. I typically bypass the FX and cabs in NDSP plugins, and quite like having a nice big GUI with simpler controls and faster use.
DAW's are a hell of a lot better value with all their stock stuff, vs buying plugins on their own. Its the same sort of thing here.
Also worth bearing in mind what the going price is for commercial Kemper/ToneX/NAM/IR packs. If its say £15 for an amp/IR pack, then 3 amps and 1 IR pack is already at £60 and you only get fixed settings, no GUI, no standalone etc.
Just a sidenote really, but the more I think about it, I actually prefer amp sims to either be like Helix Native, where the UI is streamlined to work well for what it offers, OR you keep it simple and make some design compromises in favour of having a better experience. My least favourite plugins are ones like Amplitube and Softube Amp Room where its the worst of both, and everything requires a ton of clicks, its slow, clunky and laboured. I think most of these smaller amp sim products generally make their compromises quite well - its so easy with plugins to just insert another plugin if you need a specific efffect or cab or whatever, that if they get it right for 90% of tones I'm happy.
Helix Native got it right because they chose the right compromises and made sure its fast and intuitive to use. Conversely, I dont think they made the right compromises/design choices with Metallurgy.
paisleywookiee
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Sure, it’s apples and oranges. I don’t disagree there. I’m just saying that I prefer apples, because I feel like the oranges are a poor value in relation to what I’ve already enjoyed with the apples. Not to mention I got a physical pomegranate for not much more.
FYI: If you get someone to buy them at the same time, then you only have to pay the $25 once and it will cover both
Desertdweller
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Did they license this? That’s clearly a finished Halo guitar in the 404 image.Not yet posted on their website.
MirrorProfiles
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Right, but that makes Helix exceptional value - not the rest of the market bad value.
Helix operates in competition with its HW, they wouldn’t really get away with selling the plugin for more than what it costs to buy an HX stomp. Line 6 broke out the models into individual products with bespoke GUI’s, combined amp channels into the same model and standalone operation for Metallurgy. All things users have asked for with Helix Native but it understandably isn’t possible and requires another product. For those kind of features, it costs more. It’s not a cash grab, it’s just more work and requires more support. They also have their own pro’s and con’s for the user, which they may deem worthwhile, or maybe not.
I think Helix Native is incredible value for money but I’m not going to expect everyone else to either release their take of the same product, or to lower their prices based on what Line 6 has chosen to sell it for. If everyone has to follow their pricing, the whole industry dies and we get no choice or new products/approaches. IMO basically EVERY amp sim is priced insanely low for what you get - they aren’t easy to make, they require support/maintenence, and they offer a ton of convenience.
I think it’s pretty cool being able to choose a few amps a la carte and pay essentially what it might cost to rent one of those amps for one day from a back line company. There’s so many talented developers across the board, I have no issue supporting as many as I can that are offering products that meet my needs.
There are EQ and compressor plugins out there that cost like $200 or more each. The amp sims are way better value IMO.
Mongillo19
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Is supporting L6 a bad thing tho?
