Question for Folks Who Play Guitar Through Monitors

[Baba]

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IIRC, he sent that signal back to an amp, behind him, also, I don't see any XLR's coming out of that FM9.

Plus, that was a multi-musician setup, he only played a couple/few songs, so, I would understand if all he used was wedges for this gig, but again, he didn't.

 

[Baba]

I played a sold out gig in a 250 person venue last night with me going direct to FOH via my Helix and the other guitarist taking a Tonex direct. We had a long soundcheck with a very cool sound guy who really worked with us to get the guitars cranking through the floor wedges. For whatever reason I have a hard time feeling inspired by a modeler through wedges until it gets some real volume happening, then things seem to liven up.

I still prefer playing through and interacting with physical guitar cabs, but I also LOVE showing up with a guitar and backpack. The consistency in the source is also nice.

Agreed 1,000%.

As I stated earlier, my wedge is more for the other members of my band, but it's also so I can FEEL it when I'm playing, along with listening with IEMs, and so far, I'm enjoying it the most, this summer, out of this 15" JBL at this place I play at, every week.

I'm starting to wonder if a 15" wedge is the new 4x12 . . .

 

[fretworn]

IIRC, he sent that signal back to an amp, behind him, also, I don't see any XLR's coming out of that FM9.

Plus, that was a multi-musician setup, he only played a couple/few songs, so, I would understand if all he used was wedges for this gig, but again, he didn't.

Yes; his amp is behind him w/ monitors front and sides.

 

[jay mitchell]

So far, the vast majority of the respondents use their monitors on the floor in front of them.

The frequency content of sound that reaches your eardrums changes depending on the direction the sound is coming from. This is caused by the Head Related Transfer Function ("HRTF"), which is due to the acoustic effects of head, upper torso, and pinnae. If you match two sounds while listening to both sources in front of you and then move one of the sources to a position behind you, the frequency content of the sounds will no longer match. This effect is completely independent of local acoustics; it occurs in a completely anechoic environment.

While certain components of the HRTF are highly individual, others are common across most people. They have been extensively studied, measured, and archived. This implies, for example, that there's a possibility of altering the spectral content of the sound you hear from your wedge so that it matches what you'd hear if the same sound were coming from behind you on the floor.

I've altered some of my IRs - which were chosen to match the target speaker while I'm facing both the guitar cab and the monitor - to account for the response difference that would be caused by placing the monitor behind me on the floor, as is commonly the case with amps. The differences aren't huge, but the comparison is interesting. This could turn out to be a useful tool. I'll update as I learn more.

 

[laxu]

So far, the vast majority of the respondents use their monitors on the floor in front of them.

The frequency content of sound that reaches your eardrums changes depending on the direction the sound is coming from. This is caused by the Head Related Transfer Function ("HRTF"), which is due to the acoustic effects of head, upper torso, and pinnae. If you match two sounds while listening to both sources in front of you and then move one of the sources to a position behind you, the frequency content of the sounds will no longer match. This effect is completely independent of local acoustics; it occurs in a completely anechoic environment.

While certain components of the HRTF are highly individual, others are common across most people. They have been extensively studied, measured, and archived. This implies that there's a possibility of altering the spectral content of the sound you hear from your wedge so that it matches what you'd hear if the same sound were coming from behind you on the floor.

I've altered some of my IRs - which were chosen to match the target speaker while I'm facing both the guitar cab and the monitor - to account for the response difference that would be caused by placing the monitor behind me on the floor, as is commonly the case with amps. The differences aren't huge, but the comparison is interesting. This could turn out to be a useful tool. I'll update as I learn more.

Very interesting! What kind of frequency changes do we perceive if the sound source is behind us?

I guess a lot of guitarists when using real cabs favor the "slightly off center from a cab on the floor", whether they are facing away from it or not, simply because you hear less of the piercing highs.

 

[EOengineer]

So far, the vast majority of the respondents use their monitors on the floor in front of them.

The frequency content of sound that reaches your eardrums changes depending on the direction the sound is coming from. This is caused by the Head Related Transfer Function ("HRTF"), which is due to the acoustic effects of head, upper torso, and pinnae. If you match two sounds while listening to both sources in front of you and then move one of the sources to a position behind you, the frequency content of the sounds will no longer match. This effect is completely independent of local acoustics; it occurs in a completely anechoic environment.

While certain components of the HRTF are highly individual, others are common across most people. They have been extensively studied, measured, and archived. This implies that there's a possibility of altering the spectral content of the sound you hear from your wedge so that it matches what you'd hear if the same sound were coming from behind you on the floor.

I've altered some of my IRs - which were chosen to match the target speaker while I'm facing both the guitar cab and the monitor - to account for the response difference that would be caused by placing the monitor behind me on the floor, as is commonly the case with amps. The differences aren't huge, but the comparison is interesting. This could turn out to be a useful tool. I'll update as I learn more.

First off - kudos for performing some semblance of user research. It sounds either dumb or obvious, but sometimes people go in deep developing solutions to the wrong problems or for the wrong people. Asking questions like this can help a lot.

Would you be willing to elaborate on the problem you are currently investigating or is that under lock and key for now?

One thing I wanted to get your thoughts on is whether you think the way we monitor is being influenced by accepted norms, and whether that might skew data here a bit.

As an example, my preferred way to monitor my amp at home is to have the amp in front of me. It’s not uncommon for me to play looking directly at my amplifier. When I gig with a traditional amp, it’s behind me…but not because I prefer it that way, but I’m pretty sure the sound guy and everyone else is going to look at me like an alien if I set my amp up in front of me like a wedge.

For my preferences, whether it’s an guitar amp or a full range wedge, I prefer it to hit me in the face versus the back of my head.

 

[jay mitchell]

Would you be willing to elaborate on the problem you are currently investigating or is that under lock and key for now?

It's nothing but an item of curiosity. It's pretty well-established that most guitar players set their amps on the floor behind them when they perform. When they explore alternative amplification and signal processing, they may or may not use their new amplification in the same way. When a guitar player experiences difficulties getting the sound of his new rig to match what he got from his amp, different speaker placement is one potentially major contributor to the discrepancies (s)he encounters.

One thing I wanted to get your thoughts on is whether you think the way we monitor is being influenced by accepted norms,

Without a doubt. See above. The concept of "backline" has been well and truly embedded in the psyches of almost every electric guitar and bass player there is. There's no analog to this with horn players, drummers, or keyboard players.

and whether that might skew data here a bit.

I wouldn't make a bet of any sort based on a poll like this on a forum. I was just interested in seeing if there's a general consensus among the folks who participated.

For my preferences, whether it’s an guitar amp or a full range wedge, I prefer it to hit me in the face versus the back of my head.

In that case, the IRs I collect would sound as intended without needing any correction to account for speaker placement. That was one possibility I contemplated when I opened the poll.

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

It's nothing but an item of curiosity. It's pretty well-established that most guitar players set their amps on the floor behind them when they perform. When they explore alternative amplification and signal processing, they may or may not use their new amplification in the same way. When a guitar player experiences difficulties getting the sound of his new rig to match what he got from his amp, different speaker placement is one potentially major contributor to the discrepancies (s)he encounters.

Without a doubt. See above. The concept of "backline" has been well and truly embedded in the psyches of almost every electric guitar and bass player there is. There's no analog to this with horn players, drummers, or keyboard players.

I wouldn't make a bet of any sort based on a poll like this on a forum. I was just interested in seeing if there's a general consensus among the folks who participated.

In that case, the IRs I collect would sound as intended without needing any correction to account for speaker placement. That was one possibility I contemplated when I opened the poll.

Well in the early days the amp was supposed to be in front of the player projecting toward the audience.
Hence the now perceived as upside down labeling in 50s Fender amps.

 

[jay mitchell]

Well in the early days the amp was supposed to be in front of the player projecting toward the audience.
Hence the now perceived as upside down labeling in 50s Fender amps.

I'm guessing that was the expected use of an amp for a guitarist playing with a big band, in which case they'd be seated. Although it makes perfect sense for that scenario, it appears not to have caught on; I can't recall seeing photos or videos of guitarists in combos ever doing that.

 

[EOengineer]

I'm guessing that was the expected use of an amp for a guitarist playing with a big band, in which case they'd be seated. Although it makes perfect sense for that scenario, it appears not to have caught on; I can't recall seeing photos or videos of guitarists in combos ever doing that.

Yeah we use them differently now…