Potential Mesa Reissues? IIC+ and Dual Rec

Nothing is hard to play if you practice the instrument. There’s a difference between the feel of a Fender / Mark style amp vs a SLO/Recto style amp, but really one is just tighter and more immediate while the other has a bit more sag to it. Neither is hard to play, I’ve always found the “non-forgiving” quality of an amp to be a bit of internet fluff that doesn’t really translate to reality.
 
Desertdweller said:
Nothing is hard to play if you practice the instrument.
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The only amps I've played that I would truly characterize as unforgiving are Fryettes. Really puts your playing under a microscope, no gain smear or saturation to hide behind
 
It's just a matter of how much the amp, or even the way it's dialed in, masks imperfections in one's technique, mostly wrt the dynamics of individual notes.

For example, if you play a series of hammer-on/pull-off licks using a clean tone with no compression, and certain notes are weak, then play that through a distorted/compressed tone, in which they now all sound even, yes, the clean amp is harder to play. But clean up your technique and it won't matter what amp you play through.

That's why, if you're serious about good technique, you should compare how you sound through various amps/settings.

Clean will show dynamics flaws; dirty will show accuracy flaws.

Lots of reverb and delay hides it all! :rofl
 
Desertdweller said:
Nothing is hard to play if you practice the instrument. There’s a difference between the feel of a Fender / Mark style amp vs a SLO/Recto style amp, but really one is just tighter and more immediate while the other has a bit more sag to it. Neither is hard to play, I’ve always found the “non-forgiving” quality of an amp to be a bit of internet fluff that doesn’t really translate to reality.
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I think there's a few things that can make an amp hard to play, for basically the opposite reasons.

I used to have a Stephenson amp that was kind of like a mini Trainwreck Express, but it had an absolute ton of sag. It was great for bluesy playing, but trying to play rock riffs on it made it go "flump" instead of "chunk". Now, to be fair this was like 15-20 years ago so part of it could've been not knowing how to adjust it right or not having it paired with the right cab.

At the same time, the Stephenson had more picking responsiveness than any amp I've ever owned since. It made me really have to learn to play with more consistency to get an even sound from every note. After that it's been nice to have amps that are more forgiving in this regard.

The opposite end of the spectrum is VHT/Fryette, where the base sound can be extremely tight and "dry", so those can be more frustrating for lead playing unless you manage to reduce that with amp settings. The flipside is they are perfect for those start-stop riffs.

Finally we have high power amps that can have a lot of dynamic range especially on their clean channel where hitting harder means it's an explosion of sound. If you can't handle your picking dynamics well, this might make you all over the place.

Of course, a lot of this comes down to practice too, but I think there are qualities in amps that can make them feel harder to the player.

Marshall style amps to me are the perfect middle of the road: not too loose, not too tight, not too expressive, not too compressed.
 
I never found any Mark I owned hard to play. Some were less compressed than others (both blue stripe IIIs) but that’s it. The high gain sound is very liquid feeling. Probably one of the easiest amps to play single note lines and runs on. Very focused and articulate. The IIIs were the most aggressive, least compressed and raw. The Vs were the smoothest and most compressed. The IV was JUST right.
 
My experience with them is that they can be a bitch to dial into that sweet spot and when you’re not in the sweet spot, you end up fighting your playing a bit. But once you’re in the sweet spot it’s glory all around.
 
Legends of the Mark, I’m dipping my toes into the waters with the Synergy module.

IMG_5411.jpeg


Controls Questions:
  1. So the channel 1 volume affects the lead channel gain. Is that because the channel 1 is acting as a boost? It sounds like that is doing a boost to the circuit, hence the extra gain on the lead channel.
  2. Do you guys normally use OD’s with the IIC?
    1. What sort of OD’s do you think work best? I slapped it with an 808 and it sounds pretty good, albeit I’m wondering if an OD without the massive mid mid bump might work better with the IIC, which seems like an amp youre trying to nail the midrange controls on. Might try the SD1 later.
  3. Is the lead shift adding gain? Definitely feels tighter, I’m engaging that with an OD for high gain, then turning it off for more hard rockish variations.
 
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@Whizzinby

Volume 1 is the input gain for the whole thing. You’ll want to balance Volume 1, gain, and Treble for the actual gain on the lead channel.

Remember on a mark:

Volume is input
Treble is gain
Gain is also gain
Mid is placebo
Bass is flub

I’ve also found the presence knob on the IICP to be useless for some reason. IDK what it does.

The treble, bass, and mid are pre EQ, think of them like how you’d set up a tube screamer before the amp. Diming the treble, Volume 1 to about 3 o’clock, and the gain at noon should return a super saturated sound, then EQ from there. If you’re trying to balance with channel 1, Treble around 3 o’clock, mid wherever, bass low, volume 1 at about 1-2 o’clock and gain up a bit, then hit it with a TS out front.

If it helps this is how I've run mine, and I use various TS style ODs out front for the lead channel, and the clean channel sounds beautiful with the same settings:

20241121_093009.jpg
 
Desertdweller said:
@Whizzinby

Volume 1 is the input gain for the whole thing. You’ll want to balance Volume 1, gain, and Treble for the actual gain on the lead channel.

Remember on a mark:

Volume is input
Treble is gain
Gain is also gain
Mid is placebo
Bass is flub

I’ve also found the presence knob on the IICP to be useless for some reason. IDK what it does.

The treble, bass, and mid are pre EQ, think of them like how you’d set up a tube screamer before the amp. Diming the treble, Volume 1 to about 3 o’clock, and the gain at noon should return a super saturated sound, then EQ from there. If you’re trying to balance with channel 1, Treble around 3 o’clock, mid wherever, bass low, volume 1 at about 1-2 o’clock and gain up a bit, then hit it with a TS out front.

If it helps this is how I've run mine, and I use various TS style ODs out front for the lead channel, and the clean channel sounds beautiful with the same settings:

View attachment 33404
Click to expand...

Hell yeah! Very helpful. (y)

Re: graphic eq, I need to experiment, but I see some create the V trying to keep the sliders below the mid point and some that crank everything above the midline except the 750 slider. Is that just a preference thing or is there any core difference in how the circuit handles one or the other?
 
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