Plugins vs. Modeler for the Home Noodler

[wharf rat]

I am using Helix Native.

Guitar > Focusrite Solo > GarageBand > Helix Native

Would a hardware modeler be better or am I basically getting what I would be getting out of a modeler minus the ability to gig (which I don't)?

I got my FM9 invite the other day, and I am conflicted.

 

[jellodog]

My personal bias and belief is that a dedicated hardware modeller with high quality inputs, converters and audio path that's specifically designed and built for guitar is better than a generic audio interface + plugins.

(unless it's a very expensive interface!)

Either way, good quality monitors (output device) are just as important.

I don't gig either

 

[wharf rat]

My personal bias and belief is that a dedicated hardware modeller with high quality inputs, converters and audio path that's specifically designed and built for guitar is better than a generic audio interface + plugins.

(unless it's a very expensive interface!)

Either way, good quality monitors (output device) are just as important.

I don't gig either

What do you use?

 

[TSJMajesty]

After I bought an NDSP plugin, I thought about this. It has enough features that I could be happy with it instead of the Axe III. So if I was doing it again, I'd probably think really hard about putting that 2 grand somewhere else.

For me, since I already had the Axe, and would need to at least replace it with an interface, I'm keeping both. But there was a point, where after hearing the plugin (Archetype Petrucci, which is great btw), I considered selling the Axe.

Otoh, that FM9 may actually inspire you to do more than you're currently doing. Maybe not necessarily gigging, because it's a helluva piece of gear!

 

[jellodog]

What do you use?

FM9 + Neumann monitors. It sounds a lot better than my Focusrite Scarlett haha.

But yeah, it's pretty expensive and I wouldn't want to encourage someone else to spend that money if it's going to stretch finances.

(except when I encouraged @Stone, obviously)

On the other hand, the FAS units currently hold their value well, so you could try it and move it on if it doesn't work for you.

 

[the swede]

I’m a homeplayer too. Been back and forth with hardware modeler and plugins several times. Eventually I gave up and realized that a hardware modeler always feels better, is more fun, inspiring and just easier to play through. I want to hit switches with my feet and stuff.

So for me it wasn’t about the actual sound, it’s more about being creative and using a “thing” that’s real. I never liked trying to get midi stuff working with plugins and all the, turn on speakers, turn on computer, open apps, daws and so on… things. always this process and procedure. I just want to flick a switch and play.

But the middle ground for me is that when I record, I’ll use the hardware modeler and record it and a di. Later on I can reamp the modeler if I like and add plugins or not. Or if it comes down to that, use the di for plugins only.

A combination of both is a good thing for a homeplayer imo.

As you have Native you might consider a Helix type of product, using both is very effective.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Not sure there are any HW modellers with better quality DI’s, converters, or options than what you can buy externally. I don’t really trust a modeller for handling my monitors or recording anything other than guitar or bass (even if they may support it).

I think if I’m parked permanently in a studio, I’d rather spec my own gear and use the wealth of options plugins give you. My HW modellers barely get touched compared to plugins because I just find the workflow so much worse.

I get HW modellers if you’re mostly combining them with amps and cabs, or they’re part of a live rig. But then pulling my studio apart every time there’s a gig or band practice or something sounds like hell to me.

What am I missing by people who prefer a modeller?

 

[wharf rat]

On the other hand, the FAS units currently hold their value well, so you could try it and move it on if it doesn't work for you.

For sure - I think they even have a return policy.

I was also looking at used Kempers. Those can be had for a steal at the moment, but maybe it's not a good idea to buy into 11 year old tech.

 

[laxu]

My personal bias and belief is that a dedicated hardware modeller with high quality inputs, converters and audio path that's specifically designed and built for guitar is better than a generic audio interface + plugins.

(unless it's a very expensive interface!)

Either way, good quality monitors (output device) are just as important.

I agree with all this. I don't mind plugins, but at the same time don't love them either - to me hardware modelers always feel a bit more immediate and work together more seamlessly.

 

[jellodog]

What am I missing by people who prefer a modeller?

I'm not sure, but I think you have a very nice studio and a very high end audio interface though?

i.e. considerably nicer than OP's Focusrite Solo (?)

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I'm not sure, but I think you have a very nice studio and a very high end audio interface though?

True, but I’m just trying to think what I’d do if I was starting from scratch.

I guess it really depends on the user’s goal - is it part of a general studio/writing environment, or purely about guitar?

Even still, I think I’d go more the route of an interface with a good DI (either built in or standalone). If I’m not using real amps, then I find software/plugins much more enjoyable to dial in. Monitors coming out of a floorboard interface gives me anxiety….

I’ve never used the FM-3 as an interface, but presumably Fractal’s converters are the best of HW modellers? and they’re fussy about sample rates? I always dial the FM-3 and HX stomp in with a mouse, and barely get used at all compared to plugin equivalents.

 

[jellodog]

I’ve never used the FM-3 as an interface, but presumably Fractal’s converters are the best of HW modellers?

All I can say is that the sound is significantly better from the FM9 than it is from my consumer level Focusrite audio interface. So much so, that I also play recorded music through it. I'm sure your interface is in a totally different league, though!

 

[nicolasrivera]

I am using Helix Native.

Guitar > Focusrite Solo > GarageBand > Helix Native

Would a hardware modeler be better or am I basically getting what I would be getting out of a modeler minus the ability to gig (which I don't)?

I got my FM9 invite the other day, and I am conflicted.

I'm a Fractal fan, FM9 is such a great piece of gear and FM Edit is a joy to work with, that said, if you want to enjoy killer amp tones for free, get the Neural Amp Modeler plug. Since they finished the Mac version I have not touched the ToneX plug at all as I feel that NAM just sounds and feels better in that digital context.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

All I can say is that the sound is significantly better from the FM9 than it is from my consumer level Focusrite audio interface. So much so, that I also play recorded music through it. I'm sure your interface is in a totally different league, though!

Ha I think D/A’s are something where you have to spend a LOT more for a slight improvement. I think at a certain point it’s money well spent but so wouldn’t lose sleep over it.

I actually bought a UA volt 1 to use as a portable writing thing with an ipad. Have barely used it (the free plugins were nice though ) but I’d totally recommend something like that if someone’s on a budget and just wants something to write and jam with, and that’ll handle most situations. Won’t sound AMAZING but a lot of cheaper gear is good enough for most things these days.

 

[Sleezy E]

I'd vote for saving the money for something else.

You're knee deep in diminishing returns between Native and a hardware derivative.

Add to that, if you're like me and do a lot of home recordings, the asio drivers on modelers don't handle a lot of midi tracks as effortlessly as my last focusrite interface did...

 

[V|J]

I stick to a couple of tones most of the time so my opinion is probably different than most here.
But H/W is for performance.. if you’re performing songs at home that need switching, maybe that’s a valid use case.

From a tonal and UI perspective, I’m barely disappointed with anything these days.

Although an FM9 should be easy to flip, so..

 

[fiftyshadesofslay]

Plug-ins can sound easily as good as the hardware alternatives now and Helix Native is right up there. Is it worth it to have a slightly better input convertor? It’s not to me, I use Axe io and it works great, my Kemper basically sits in the cupboard until I have to do a gig that calls for me to go direct.

Also if you’re recording plug-ins are much easier to work with in a DAW.

 

[the-trooper]

Plug-ins can sound easily as good as the hardware alternatives now and Helix Native is right up there. Is it worth it to have a slightly better input convertor? It’s not to me, I use Axe io and it works great,

This. These days it's all pretty great, not worth getting bogged down in "converters on this work better by 0.001% in upper lower mid high spectrum".
Here's a comparison between three price points:

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I did a similar test comparing mic pre’s and converters, going from high end analog chains with mastering grade converters to Behringer.

 

[laxu]

This. These days it's all pretty great, not worth getting bogged down in "converters on this work better by 000.1% in upper lower mid high spectrum".
Here's a comparison between three price points:

All the budget interfaces are cut from the same cloth really and you'd have to put a lot of money down before you end up with some improvement.

The differences for the budget stuff are going to be in things like Hi-Z inputs, headphone amp capabilities and especially driver quality. Focusrite is quite solid for drivers - fairly low rountrip latency, stable etc. Not that fond of the instrument inputs though and the headphone amp could be a bit better as I feel e.g my Fractal sounds better for that and handles high impedance headphones with more headroom.

I've had the same Scarlett 6i6 2nd gen for years because I have had a hard time finding a suitable higher end replacement that has at minimum the same feature set. Usually even higher end stuff might not have e.g SPDIF I/O.