Plugin Piracy Thread

[Orvillain]

There's no claim, there was no justification, I just said what happened. I was wrong, sure. People change, grow.

You're very very brave to criticize anyone's logic after "Which is an illegal practice. Thus, the thread is about legality."



What are you talking about? Of course it does, it gets codified and enforced by law, but you're crazy to think its meaning solely relies on the law, the concept still stands.

I care not for your feelings based opinions.

 

[[Nathan]]

I’ve said this before but plugin piracy has its own nuances to other forms of piracy (tv shows, games, ebook downloads etc).

Captures seems to come up a lot and now the 11rack hardware stuff. I don’t know what the 11rack situation is whether it was a paid addon that you can’t access or for some reason your model doesn’t have access to it when it should, or whether the time has passed and they just won’t sell it to anyone. All of these nuances make a difference.

They all deserve their own conversation to actually be productive, otherwise it’s just goalpost moving and irrelevant scenarios to the one at hand, plugin piracy.

What does 11rack not allowing you to update the hardware have to do with people cracking neuraldsp plugins, not a lot.

 

[Tito83]

I’ve said this before but plugin piracy has its own nuances to other forms of piracy (tv shows, games, ebook downloads etc).

Captures seems to come up a lot and now the 11rack hardware stuff. I don’t know what the 11rack situation is whether it was a paid addon that you can’t access or for some reason your model doesn’t have access to it when it should, or whether the time has passed and they just won’t sell it to anyone. All of these nuances make a difference.

They all deserve their own conversation to actually be productive, otherwise it’s just goalpost moving and irrelevant scenarios to the one at hand, plugin piracy.

What does 11rack not allowing you to update the hardware have to do with people cracking neuraldsp plugins, not a lot.

Thank you for pointing out nuance is important.

A usual way to test any moral stance is to test it in different scenarios, poking and prodding it to see where it fails and how to modify, change, or maybe even recognize its flaws and keep an eye on it because you can't find a better solution.

The 11R situation came up when someone asked a situation where I think cracking is... Maybe "right" is not the word, maybe acceptable is better.

The profiling came up because I see a lot of people seeing it as acceptable vs piracy. And yet, when I try to put myself in the shoes of the developer, while I could think flat out pirate copies are worse than profiles, I can't imagine any developer being perfectly fine with a pack of a number of profiles of his plugin on a free website. Again, both different, both still not ethical IMO. There are quite a few people that think one it's ok while the other is not, and I'm curious because I've yet to see any real moral argument made, everyone that tried to justify it used laws.

Maybe there are some out there that may be ok with this, who know - I'd be curious to hear from them, but I really don't see it being a lot of them. And I have to say, even if they are ok with it, I would not be and personally would not use profiles from plugins even if they say it's ok.

 

[[Nathan]]

Thank you for pointing out nuance is important.

A usual way to test any moral stance is to test it in different scenarios, poking and prodding it to see where it fails and how to modify, change, or maybe even recognize its flaws and keep an eye on it because you can't find a better solution.

The 11R situation came up when someone asked a situation where I think cracking is... Maybe "right" is not the word, maybe acceptable is better.

The profiling came up because I see a lot of people seeing it as acceptable vs piracy. And yet, when I try to put myself in the shoes of the developer, while I could think flat out pirate copies are worse than profiles, I can't imagine any developer being perfectly fine with a pack of a number of profiles of his plugin on a free website. Again, both different, both still not ethical IMO. There are quite a few people that think one it's ok while the other is not, and I'm curious because I've yet to see any real moral argument made, everyone that tried to justify it used laws.

Maybe there are some out there that may be ok with this, who know - I'd be curious to hear from them, but I really don't see it being a lot of them. And I have to say, even if they are ok with it, I would not be and personally would not use profiles from plugins even if they say it's ok.

I dunno how to keep saying it but those are just different scenarios. It's like asking a criminal lawyer to help you with family matters or wondering how your dirt bike works on a race track.... its all same same but different. If people want to talk about dirt bikes and you keep bringing up the race track can you not see how its like, bro what are you even talking about.

There might be scenarios that a person brings up where they can justify software piracy for xyz reasons, and those make complete sense with how this topic spawned. Trying to LARP as a NDSP developer getting annoyed because one jawa cloned one tone from Gojira X and put it onto their ToneX pedal is just so different from someone cracking the NDSP Gojira X plugin. They might have it in their T's and C's that this is not allowed, ToneX/Kemper or whoever might also have literature in their T's and C's saying this is not allowed. I (and im sure many others) haven't combed through this topic to that in depth detail so its hard to have a meaningful conversation about it. That's why they deserve their own thread with their own set of conversation.

 

[GuitarBilly74]

Getting a third party copy of software that has been long discontinued and no longer for sale is not what piracy is. Say, if you have an old computer and needs a copy of Windows XP, who cares if you get a copy from a third party. That's not what this discussion is about and brining this type of this type of stuff into it is an attempt to dilute the topic.

Piracy is the theft and unauthorized use/distribution of currently available software. And it's wrong/theft every single time for every single "reason". There is really no nuance about it.

 

[Tito83]

I dunno how to keep saying it but those are just different scenarios. It's like asking a criminal lawyer to help you with family matters or wondering how your dirt bike works on a race track.... its all same same but different. If people want to talk about dirt bikes and you keep bringing up the race track can you not see how its like, bro what are you even talking about.

There might be scenarios that a person brings up where they can justify software piracy for xyz reasons, and those make complete sense with how this topic spawned. Trying to LARP as a NDSP developer getting annoyed because one jawa cloned one tone from Gojira X and put it onto their ToneX pedal is just so different from someone cracking the NDSP Gojira X plugin. They might have it in their T's and C's that this is not allowed, ToneX/Kemper or whoever might also have literature in their T's and C's saying this is not allowed. I (and im sure many others) haven't combed through this topic to that in depth detail so its hard to have a meaningful conversation about it. That's why they deserve their own thread with their own set of conversation.

That's not a really fair comparison. In my case I explained exactly how every scenario directly related to the topic at hand. It's basic common practice in ethics to put your stances to test in slightly different scenarios, I don't see at all where I just side tracked to irrelevant topics.

I'll grant that it's fair you don't want to talk about related topics in order to pin point the nuances of the main topic at hand, but I think very firmly that's ultimately unproductive.

It's wrong in all cases.

Getting a third party copy of software that has been long discontinued and no longer for sale is not what piracy is.

This is exactly why nuance and ethical inquiry are important.

 

[GuitarBilly74]

This is exactly why nuance and ethical inquiry are important.

This has NOTHING to do with nuance and ethical inquiry, you're conflating 2 completely different topics as an attempt to make a point you don't have.

 

[FracKing]

Pirates wondering if there will be new tunes to extract!

Thankfully you guys have decided to never play along to such tracks -- or not w/o at least buying the game (but still...).

Thread 'Stage Tour (Guitar Hero Successor)'

Yesterday at 6:12 PM

@Ed DeGenaro you got any feelings towards this?
I'm (sort of) hype, count me in for some new plastic controllers. No way will I spend the time I did when it originally launched and I was a lot younger, but I'll still pick it up for that never ending nostalgia hit.

Some Creators Of The GUITAR HERO Franchise To Launch New Guitar-Centered Video Game, Stage Tour; STATIC-X Music Used In New Game Trailer - Metal Injection

Static X is the soundtrack of a new video game trailer from 'Stage Tour,' a game created with the help of some Guitar Hero developers.

metalinjection.net

• [Nathan]
• Replies: 3
• Forum: Digital & Modeling

 

[Tito83]

This has NOTHING to do with nuance and ethical inquiry, you're conflating 2 completely different topics as an attempt to make a point you don't have.

You said:

At any rate, none of this is a good justification for cracking software, just mental gymnastics and false equivalencies.

It's wrong in all cases. Not in most cases except the one you need LOL

Yeah a lot of stuff goes out of production/support. It's not a reason to steal them though.

And all of a sudden you changed the tune to:

Getting a third party copy of software that has been long discontinued and no longer for sale is not what piracy is. Say, if you have an old computer and needs a copy of Windows XP, who cares if you get a copy from a third party. That's not what this discussion is about and brining this type of this type of stuff into it is an attempt to dilute the topic.

Piracy is the theft and unauthorized use/distribution of currently available software. And it's wrong/theft every single time for every single "reason". There is really no nuance about it.

How do you explain the change?

 

[GuitarBilly74]

You said:






And all of a sudden you changed the tune to:




How do you explain the change?

There is no change. On the 11r thing, I told you to BUY an unit with the software version you want. If something is discontinued the used market is the only option to purchase it.
I didn't tell you to steal anything LOL. You're really desperate for that validation aren't you? Not getting it from me. That's for sure.

Again, you're conflating 2 completely different things and trying to twist words to make your nonexistent point.

 

[[Nathan]]

Pirates wondering if there will be new tunes to extract!

Thankfully you guys have decided to never play along to such tracks -- or not w/o at least buying the game (but still...).

Thread 'Stage Tour (Guitar Hero Successor)'

Yesterday at 6:12 PM

@Ed DeGenaro you got any feelings towards this?
I'm (sort of) hype, count me in for some new plastic controllers. No way will I spend the time I did when it originally launched and I was a lot younger, but I'll still pick it up for that never ending nostalgia hit.

Some Creators Of The GUITAR HERO Franchise To Launch New Guitar-Centered Video Game, Stage Tour; STATIC-X Music Used In New Game Trailer - Metal Injection

Static X is the soundtrack of a new video game trailer from 'Stage Tour,' a game created with the help of some Guitar Hero developers.

metalinjection.net

• [Nathan]
• Replies: 3
• Forum: Digital & Modeling

Are you suggesting buying guitar hero or the new game is equivalent to piracy?

 

[Tito83]

Getting a third party copy of software that has been long discontinued and no longer for sale is not what piracy is. Say, if you have an old computer and needs a copy of Windows XP, who cares if you get a copy from a third party. That's not what this discussion is about and brining this type of this type of stuff into it is an attempt to dilute the topic.

Piracy is the theft and unauthorized use/distribution of currently available software. And it's wrong/theft every single time for every single "reason". There is really no nuance about it.

There is no change. On the 11r thing, I told you to BUY an unit with the software version you want. If something is discontinued the used market is the only option to purchase it.
I didn't tell you to steal anything LOL. You're really desperate for that validation aren't you? Not getting it from me. That's for sure.

Again, you're conflating 2 completely different things and trying to twist words to make your nonexistent point.

How can it be stealing/piracy if I repeatedly said it's not currently available? Your definition btw, not mine.

You think too highly of yourself to imagine a random person on the internet somehow needs validation from you. I'm just discussing in a discussion board.

 

[Dom Mcsweeney]

Buying a strat copy is piracy.

 

[GuitarBilly74]

How can it be stealing/piracy if I repeatedly said it's not currently available? Your definition btw, not mine.

You think too highly of yourself to imagine a random person on the internet somehow needs validation from you. I'm just discussing in a discussion board.

If it's not available new, buy used. Get it?

And you're DEFINITELY fishing for validation. Not necessarily from me LOL but for whoever gives it to you.

Buying a strat copy is piracy.

Most likely not, because courts both in the US and the EU have decided a strat body is generic and the trademark applies to the headstock only.
Buying a counterfeit Fender is definitely piracy though. And wrong.

The laws on piracy are pretty well defined. Gray areas only "exist" for those looking to justify their own actions. But the laws themselves are clear.