Pedal deplatformed, or help me choose a multi-channel amp 21 yrs later

[Fishbulb]

I find myself stuck in this cycle of trying to overcome limitations of my nice but relatively small amp collection, convincing myself whatever I choose out of that will do the job, play a gig, notice nothing but limitations, search for amp to add that'll overcome those limitations, waffle about spending money, convince myself that what I have will do the job, rinse repeat. I've been socking some $ away and if I can survive a summer slowdown in gigs without incurring any major unexpected expenses, I might be able to invest in a new amp. As the title implies, I really am starting to shy away from the pedal platform thing...I definitely come from that school of thought that prefers amp distortion, but for practical reasons have been living in the stacking drives into a clean amp world, unsatisfied, for a long time. Here's what I've got:

• Fender 1968 Custom Deluxe Reverb - this is what I've been using mainly lately, because I've been playing guitar for an indie rock band and need the chimey cleans and a nice clean platform to run delays and reverbs and stuff into. I can usually get this at max to 3 which isn't really waking the amp up at all, and balancing making give me overdrive/distortion sounds I'm happy with is always a challenge. Despite the fact that almost every Deluxe Reverb I've ever played sounds kind of harsh and tinny standing next to it, thru a mic they sound pretty nice and it's easy to carry around, so those are the plusses.

• Victory Sheriff 44 (NOT the new and improved ones that came out recently) - I love the way this amp sounds, particularly channel one, but it lacks a true clean tone and the effects loop totally sucks due to it being post-phase inverter master volume. I've been able to get around the clean channel thing by just rolling my volume back some with some of the more rock-leaning bands I play in, but it's tough dialing in the beautiful delays and reverbs that I really love having with it. I also love recording with this guy, where those things are less of an issue. Form factor is also nice and I've never found it lacking for power or volume, plus I find the master volume to work really well as far as tube amps go.

• Mesa Dual Rectifier 3 channel - the first nice amp I ever bought, 21 years ago. I spent a ton of time getting to know this amp, spending countless hours in my old band's rehearsal space experimenting, dialing it in and really learning every idiosyncracy, and we played a LOT of gigs together across the spectrum. While I don't think they're as much of a one-trick pony as some people make them out to be, my tastes have kind of drifted away from the Mesa sound and I did put a lot of effort into trying to eliminate that gritty high end fizz that they seem to have. It's big and a lot to lug around, and while I don't think I'll ever get rid of it, it's just not as practical as the other two (plus the effects loop is also kind of bad/picky).

I think what I'm looking for is something that is around 40-50 watts, has a good deal of convincing versatility (I could be using an amp for country, clean indie rock, yacht rock, metal, all sorts of stuff), and an effects loop that works well and sounds good with pedals, in a relatively portable form factor. After using the Sheriff live for a while I think I definitely need a dedicated clean channel, it would be nice if I could push that to get some hair out of it, and a Marshally overdrive channel (or at least, something with some nice musical clarity that feels nice to play), and a master volume with some good range. Not sure that I need liquid high gain but I'd be down to hear some stuff and see if it would work for me. Some recent amps that have caught my eye include the new PRS Archon Classic (that Zack Wish demo), the Victory Kraken MkII or Jack MkII, and pushing the budget would be the Bogner Ecstacy 3534 50w (always dreamed of a Bogner when I was younger). Would any of these come close to what I'm after? Am I missing anything else? I've been out of the loop on a lot of gear, any help is appreciated!

 

[EOengineer]

So it sounds to me like you need squeaky cleans sometimes, and then a good Marshall flavored crunch channel that you can maybe boost up into higher gain territory when you go that far. You might want to look at the Friedman Runt 50? Alternately a Ceriatone all access might get you there but I'm thinking you want American cleans.

 

[Chocol8]

Alternately a Ceriatone all access might get you there but I'm thinking you want American cleans.

Interesting suggestion. It can get fairly American sounding cleans, but that requires different tone settings and an American sounding cab. Not something foot switchable. It also has a MV which can allow for some preamp distortion, but IMHO, like any 4 hole Marshall circuit, it sounds better run hard with power amp distortion which would mean an attenuator if he can't turn a Deluxe up past 3-4. I do love the All Access though as a great Marshall clone.

Here is my somewhat unconventional suggestion. I much prefer drives into an already slightly dirty tube amp over a "clean" pedal platform. Perhaps adding an attenuator to the Deluxe and turning it up to edge of breakup or a touch past will then give you tones you prefer with the dirt pedals, and turning the guitar volume down (or pedal volume etc) to get the Fender cleans. If this works but you still want to go up to 40-50 watts, consider trading the 68 Custom Deluxe for the 68 Custom Pro Reverb or look at something like the Mesa California 4:40.

 

[Fishbulb]

So it sounds to me like you need squeaky cleans sometimes, and then a good Marshall flavored crunch channel that you can maybe boost up into higher gain territory when you go that far. You might want to look at the Friedman Runt 50? Alternately a Ceriatone all access might get you there but I'm thinking you want American cleans.

I like the way Plexis and JTM45s sound clean, if "British clean" would mean more of a Vox style, then I have sort of struggled with those being a bit bright in the past. I get a little tired of the somewhat scooped, doinky Fender clean but it is definitely a cornerstone sound for a lot of genres. I'll give the Runt and Ceriatone a look, thanks.

Chocol8 I have thought about the attenuator idea too, and I might look into that more - I am worried though that I would run into the same issue I have with reverbs and delays with the Sheriff, where the amp breaking up turns those sounds into mush. Sometimes mush is the desired effect, but other times I want the sounds I have dialed in on those pedals to be crisp. I wonder if there's an attenuator out there with an effects loop, I'll do some research....

 

[HomespunEffects]

Hear me out:

 

[newholland]

if a deluxe on 3 is too loud, why 50 watts?

id keep multiple amps, tbh, and mebbe sell the deluxe and buy a bassman, ditch the victory, and put an amenable boost in front. or find a mesa mark.

 

[Frodebro]

FM9T and an FR12. That’ll give you all the amps and all the effects at all the volumes.

 

[Fishbulb]

if a deluxe on 3 is too loud, why 50 watts?

id keep multiple amps, tbh, and mebbe sell the deluxe and buy a bassman, ditch the victory, and put an amenable boost in front. or find a mesa mark.

The Deluxe usually lands around 3 (depends on the band/room), but that's just running it as a clean platform and hitting it with at least 1-2 pedals for gain and/or clean boost, so it ends up being louder from the front end being hit. The Sheriff is 45 watts, and that goes about halfway up on the master volume control with a band usually, so I don't know if watts/volume setting ratio is going to tell the whole story. I do end up using the Bassman side of the Deluxe Reverb a lot but I want to get away from getting all the overdrive from pedals - I've got plenty of good ones (Lightspeed, silver Nobels, RC Booster, BB Preamp, Bogner Blue, Friedman BEOD Dlx, JRocket Archer Rockaway, OD808), they just all kind of sound and feel like a pedal thru the Deluxe Reverb.

My thinking is that 40-50w is going to give a better headroom for effects loop and clean sounds, and the volume I am hoping will be dialed in with the master. Every time I've tried one of those 15-20 watt lunchbox amps where you're getting all the tone from the amp like the Orange Tiny Terror, Egnaters, even some of the Mesas etc, I never felt satisfied with the experience - they often felt underwhelming to play or ran out of clean headroom when playing at band levels. This is partially why the Kraken piqued my interest though, because it's a 50w amp in a smaller form factor, and I'm impressed with the master volume on the Sheriff.

 

[EOengineer]

Interesting suggestion. It can get fairly American sounding cleans, but that requires different tone settings and an American sounding cab. Not something foot switchable. It also has a MV which can allow for some preamp distortion, but IMHO, like any 4 hole Marshall circuit, it sounds better run hard with power amp distortion which would mean an attenuator if he can't turn a Deluxe up past 3-4. I do love the All Access though as a great Marshall clone.

Here is my somewhat unconventional suggestion. I much prefer drives into an already slightly dirty tube amp over a "clean" pedal platform. Perhaps adding an attenuator to the Deluxe and turning it up to edge of breakup or a touch past will then give you tones you prefer with the dirt pedals, and turning the guitar volume down (or pedal volume etc) to get the Fender cleans. If this works but you still want to go up to 40-50 watts, consider trading the 68 Custom Deluxe for the 68 Custom Pro Reverb or look at something like the Mesa California 4:40.

I misinterpreted and OP corrected me. Now knowing he doesn’t mind vintage Marshall cleans the sky is the limit.

FWIW I agree with you about preferring OD through amps that have some hair on them. The old Marshalls are legendary with dirt pedals. A 1987 with a boost might even do it.

 

[Chocol8]

I am worried though that I would run into the same issue I have with reverbs and delays with the Sheriff, where the amp breaking up turns those sounds into mush.

For these tones you either turn down the guitar volume, or the output level on one of the pedals so the amp is clean.

 

[Fishbulb]

A closed back Marshall Mini Silver Jubilee combo has a very nice clean sound, and a exceptional crunch and OD sound too. A more budget friendly version Marshall DLS20 is a equally competent amp.

View attachment 47718

I had a DSL20 for about a week last year, took it back. At the time I wanted something Marshall-flavored that I could use instead of the Deluxe Reverb, but I found the DSL20 to be lacking my favorite sound in the DSL100....the drive side of the green channel! I'd be interested to try the Jubilee, I hear good things.

 

[gearJunkie]

Choose any single (or multi) channel amp you like that has an effects loop for your main distortion sound. Then add a Tone King Imperial Preamp pedal in 4 cable method. This results in 3 (or more) available channels: TK Imperial clean, TKI overdrive, amp-of-choice distortion.

I use a Badlander 50 combo with the TK preamp, and I have 4 total amp channels (TKI x 2) + (BL x 2).

The TKI has it's own effects loop, reverb, and tremolo which apply to all 4 channels. I can use the combo speaker as a stage monitor, and the TKI preamp provides speaker cab IRs and XLR outs for running direct to front of house.

It's a wonderfully versatile and awesome sounding setup.

 

[Iron1]

Badlander.

This is TGF afterall.

 

[FuzzyAce]

Badlander.

This is TGF afterall.

Did you get the memo? This is a high wattage Marshall forum now.

 

[gearJunkie]

Did you get the memo? This is a high wattage Marshall forum now.

 

[paisleywookiee]

A closed back Marshall Mini Silver Jubilee combo has a very nice clean sound, and a exceptional crunch and OD sound too. A more budget friendly version Marshall DLS20 is a equally competent amp.

View attachment 47718

Great amp.

 

[laxu]

I'll always shill for the BluGuitar Amp 1. Either version, just depends if you prefer modern vs vintage Marshall.

If it has to be all tube, the Bogner Goldfinger 45 Superlead fits your description pretty well. Like the BluGuitar, it's got a Fender based clean channel, with a switchable voicing Marshall overdrive channel and a built in tube boost. Throw your favorite delay in the loop, done.

In terms of feel it leans more towards old school Marshall rather than modern tho.

 

[GuitarBilly74]

You should consider an EVH 50w. The cleans are great (it IS made by Fender after all), the blue channel can get anything from classic to modern rock and the red channel is a scorcher. The amp sounds good at any volume, loop is great and it's small enough to fit over a 1x12 and has enough power to drive a big cab.