Octave Technologies Haricane (modeling-ready Win 11 host in a small enclosure)

[Desertdweller]

My Road King doesn’t force a Windows update in the middle of a gig. A windows or Mac based guitar rig is nightmare fuel for me based on how often I get forced updates.

Just saying.

 

[Sedaxel]

For live use, my opinion is that pc based rigs are an unnecessary risk. It'll be more complicated, more prone to fail, more messy (cables, interface, power supplies...)...

I like the idea of using vsts and whatnot, but honestly, when I seat down and think, the obvious choice is just to use hardware effects.

 

[ian_dissonance]

My Road King doesn’t force a Windows update in the middle of a gig. A windows or Mac based guitar rig is nightmare fuel for me based on how often I get forced updates.

Just saying.

Can’t get forced updates if you don’t go online. Or if you spend 10 minutes configuring your system out of the box.

 

[pipelineaudio]

Doesn't converters quality (and whatnot) have to do something too?

I think the path could be simplified to round trip latency = analog to digital converter latency (most of these interfaces are using the same or very similar converters, ESPECIALLY since the chip shortages and the Taiwan semiconductor fire as well as some in japan forced many manufacturers to consolidate their lines and remove lower selling products, much more about this in the DAWBench podcast) + input buffer + DSP latency(DAW, plugin, whatever, if any) + any hidden safety buffers + output buffers + digital to analog converter latency

This picture

From here is pretty good - https://support.presonus.com/hc/en-...or-delay-when-recording-Digital-Audio-Latency

But yeah, the big part where there is a going to be a massive difference is right there in the drivers (assuming a non latent plugin)

 

[Sedaxel]

I think the path could be simplified to round trip latency = analog to digital converter latency (most of these interfaces are using the same or very similar converters, ESPECIALLY since the chip shortages and the Taiwan semiconductor fire as well as some in japan forced many manufacturers to consolidate their lines and remove lower selling products, much more about this in the DAWBench podcast) + input buffer + DSP latency(DAW, plugin, whatever, if any) + any hidden safety buffers + output buffers + digital to analog converter latency

This picture View attachment 19211

From here is pretty good - https://support.presonus.com/hc/en-...or-delay-when-recording-Digital-Audio-Latency

But yeah, the big part where there is a going to be a massive difference is right there in the drivers (assuming a non latent plugin)

Thank you! Great to learn these kind of stuff.

 

[pipelineaudio]

DAWBench and our forum's own @Jim Roseberry are the two undisputed experts on all of this interface stuff

 

[Sascha Franck]

Audient uses the same TheSycon drivers as pretty much everyone else aside from RME.

I think by now Audient have upped their driver game, at least that's what I remember reading recently on a german recording forum. More infos should be in the GS megathread.

The Zoom might actually be faster.

I have a UAC 2 which is pretty decent (was best in its class back when I bought it), I'd guess the U44 drivers are pretty much the same.

Is the driver the only important thing in RTL?

Basically yes. Modern converters should add around 1ms for the entire ADDA process.
Otherwise, the link pipelineaudio posted is still decent.
The main difference in drivers usually being "safety buffers" (named "transport buffers" in the picture above), which you usually can't access as a user (even if some interface makers allow some adjustments there, such as Motu) and which are added on top of what you set in your host.

Yeah, it doesn't matter how "optimized" the hardware is...at the end of the day, the plugin makers are not "optimizing" their UI for this kind of application so you're still screwed.

Which is why there's easier generalized control surfaces. Such as the control page at Logic's bottom or apps such as Touch OSC.
A decent live host should come with these simplification options built in.

DAWBench and our forum's own @Jim Roseberry are the two undisputed experts on all of this interface stuff

Defenitely.
The megathread at Gearspace is pretty informative, too, but it turned into kind of a monstrosity.

Audio Interface - Low Latency Performance Data Base - Gearspace

Hey All, I am sure all of us have seen posts over the years where end users have purchased a new audio interface and have experienced varying degrees o

gearspace.com

 

[pipelineaudio]

Defenitely.
The megathread at Gearspace is pretty informative, too, but it turned into kind of a monstrosity.

Audio Interface - Low Latency Performance Data Base - Gearspace

Hey All, I am sure all of us have seen posts over the years where end users have purchased a new audio interface and have experienced varying degrees o

gearspace.com

And that one is Vin Curigliano from DAWBench. His handling of nonsense is awesome

 

[Desertdweller]

Can’t get forced updates if you don’t go online. Or if you spend 10 minutes configuring your system out of the box.

I guess what I’m saying is with amps or modelers, they don’t have cellular or WI-FI, they don’t have timed updates, and they don’t surprise you. I’ve seen a band literally have to stop their set because their backing track laptop was hot spotted to a cell phone and it pushed a windows update mid-set.

I generally like the idea of this product, the idea of a PC-based device running Windows just makes my skin crawl with how Microsoft heavy-handily forces updates.

 

[Sascha Franck]

I’ve seen a band literally have to stop their set because their backing track laptop was hot spotted to a cell phone and it pushed a windows update mid-set.

Well, this is why you only use such setups in case you're smart enough. And yes, I'm serious.

how Microsoft heavy-handily forces updates.

They don't. Well ok, they do by default. But noone is forcing you to stick with the defaults.

And as far as forced updates go, Apple is way worse (just the symptoms and their ways of forcing you are somewhat different).

 

[Will Chen]

I guess what I’m saying is with amps or modelers, they don’t have cellular or WI-FI, they don’t have timed updates, and they don’t surprise you. I’ve seen a band literally have to stop their set because their backing track laptop was hot spotted to a cell phone and it pushed a windows update mid-set.

I generally like the idea of this product, the idea of a PC-based device running Windows just makes my skin crawl with how Microsoft heavy-handily forces updates.

That's user error. Regardless of OS, if gigging a computer, step one is disabling it from all networks.

And again...as a long time Windows user the last time I saw a critical immediate MS security update was probably Windows 7. Their current update policy allows a lot of user scheduling/deferral and Windows 11 (and 10 before) have been rock solid for me.

But...whatever. If Windows makes your skin crawl, no skin off my back. Use whatever you want.

 

[Desertdweller]

That's user error. Regardless of OS, if gigging a computer, step one is disabling it from all networks.

No shit, but I shouldn’t have to do that with my device I’m running for my guitar lol

 

[ian_dissonance]

I guess what I’m saying is with amps or modelers, they don’t have cellular or WI-FI, they don’t have timed updates, and they don’t surprise you. I’ve seen a band literally have to stop their set because their backing track laptop was hot spotted to a cell phone and it pushed a windows update mid-set.

I generally like the idea of this product, the idea of a PC-based device running Windows just makes my skin crawl with how Microsoft heavy-handily forces updates.

Pretty sure the QC is online, maybe TMP and Headrush Prime, too? Computers are a part of live music from now on, but that won’t stop people from being dumb with them. I’ve seen metal bands that don’t have any noise gates. Talk about stupid.

 

[Desertdweller]

Pretty sure the QC is online, maybe TMP and Headrush Prime, too? Computers are a part of live music from now on, but that won’t stop people from being dumb with them. I’ve seen metal bands that don’t have any noise gates. Talk about stupid.

Agreed. I remember seeing Type O Negative years ago and their guitarist was noisy as hell.

 

[Will Chen]

No shit, but I shouldn’t have to do that with my device I’m running for my guitar lol

That's like saying I shouldn't have to check the batteries in my fuzz because I play guitar. Any competent musician should know how to operate their gear in a way that avoids unnecessary issues to the best of their abilities. Is that a controversial stance?

 

[mikah912]

Agreed. I remember seeing Type O Negative years ago and their guitarist was noisy as hell.

Kenny Hickey? Dude's tone was like that on all of the records too. Just insane. You can hear it when stops playing in pretty much any song.

I think it was because he kept his neck position Sustainiac pickup on pretty much nonstop. With a lot of gain and a real amp, it gets crazy microphonic.

 

[luckymethod]

Has anyone seen this already?

Octave Technologies

octavetech.eu

Interesting choice of endorser for a machine like this, didn't see it coming.

 

[Enchilada Jones]

Yeah, it doesn't matter how "optimized" the hardware is...at the end of the day, the plugin makers are not "optimizing" their UI for this kind of application so you're still screwed.

I wonder if you could write a 'driver' for touch screen that let you make the screen a touchpad like on a laptop. Since VST's are usually designed for a small window inside the DAW you could maybe get good results if the screen behaved like a touchpad moving a cursor.

 

[Sascha Franck]

I wonder if you could write a 'driver' for touch screen that let you make the screen a touchpad like on a laptop. Since VST's are usually designed for a small window inside the DAW you could maybe get good results if the screen behaved like a touchpad moving a cursor.

I think it'd be sufficient in case the host used provided a touchscreen-optimized function, bypassing all the graphical gizmos. Should be no problem, each plugin can as well be displayed as a list of parameters with sliders/knobs next to it. Logic is already allowing for that.