Next Gen Fractal Speculation Thread

[Rock Chalk]

You two deserve each other

 

[KingsXJJ]

Did you even read my post before replying to it?

Yes, you seemed to be concerned about resources or focus being taken away from what others want and directed toward what you feel the majority of users don’t even notice or care about. You also made another post stating it you were unable to fathom why even home users would care and made a demeaning joke about it.

I do care Drew whether you can fathom it or not.

 

[KingsXJJ]

View attachment 46636

Line 6 season!

Fractal season!

Line 6 season!


And so on….

 

[Whizzinby]

If you can’t have fun riffing in a product speculation thread, I’d highly recommend getting laid and smoking a bowl.

JFC some of you guys are wound tighter than a drum.

 

[BenIfin]

Just an FYI, you now hold the title as the first person temp banned at TGF.

Well ..... I guess I can finally claim some sort of achievement .... albeit unintentional :)

 

[KingsXJJ]

I want revise my perhaps hasty joke about “five seconds flat” and amend it to 10 seconds flat. I don’t want to seem unreasonable.

But any improvement is welcome as far as I’m concerned since…

 

[Whizzinby]

I’m not implying that, I just think what you’re asking for is by and large already there. I can’t see what’s missing. I’m not saying what you’re asking for is wrong or incorrect

Not Chord, but jumping off from this line of discussion. I think what L6 is doing with the Hype knob is somewhat an attempt to address people maybe not knowing what to tweak. (Or maybe not knowing what pre and post tweaks are needed vs what a raw amp sound is) Maybe FAS could add something similar that is making multiple tweaks behind the scenes. People may not know what NFB is or PPI MV, but might understand “Turn this to change gain character”.

I agree with you generally though that FAS puts it all out on the table, and I’ve found this stuff is actually not as intimidating as it seems at first. Tweak a little, hear the result, tweak again. I’ve stumbled on some cool tones doing this on rainy days.

 

[DLC86]

Tbf, people are making assumptions on sound and feel on products that aren’t even released yet, and that they certainly haven’t played. So IMO it is pretty shortsighted to say they think the modelling is worse.

Yeah, agree on that... we can't say anything in advance before hearing it, and I'm sure Agoura represents a good leap forward for them, but...

Fractal IMO has the least room to improve because it already sounds so good. So while someone might have a preference on current products, the gap will surely narrow on the next generation.

That's the same thing I heard when the Helix first came out, which surely was a good leap from the Pod HD... but if the gap at that point was kinda narrower, in these last 10 years it increased again significantly imho.
So... we'll just have to wait and see what happens this time.

 

[GTR37]

Maybe more algorithms for effects, along the lines of Strymon, Eventide, & TC...?

Pitch algorithm perhaps faster better pitch detection
Possibly even lower latency
I think it 3ms now or something .
More storage where users can load and save the Dynacab Packs they purchased

 

[Mongillo19]

I agree with you generally though that FAS puts it all out on the table, and I’ve found this stuff is actually not as intimidating as it seems at first. Tweak a little, hear the result, tweak again. I’ve stumbled on some cool tones doing this on rainy days.

This is where I think taking a page from L6 and having a notes pop up or some such on the obscure parameters would be cool

 

[Whizzinby]

This is where I think taking a page from L6 and having a notes pop up or some such on the obscure parameters would be cool

Agree totally. Not having to leave the focus of the screen to figure out what a parameter is doing is awesome. (And honestly such a basic idea it’s hard to believe everyone doesn’t do it) I am curious how that is implemented though. Do you have to turn on a “help” mode, which might spam the Paper Clip dude everywhere, or can something like a long press of a param trigger it etc.

Either way, makes a lot of sense. Having to google takes you out of the flow.

 

[Mongillo19]

Agree totally. Not having to leave the focus of the screen to figure out what a parameter is doing is awesome. (And honestly such a basic idea it’s hard to believe everyone doesn’t do it) I am curious how that is implemented though. Do you have to turn on a “help” mode, which might spam the Paper Clip dude everywhere, or can something like a long press of a param trigger it etc.

Either way, makes a lot of sense. Having to google takes you out of the flow.

For sure. Idk how well it will work being always on and you would need to have a decent sized screen to not make it cramped. The idea of having a toggle would be cool. Or a "don't show again" button

 

[GTR37]

I’d guess there is the VP4 amp/IR coming next using the same chassis etc with the same basic UI. (which tbh is easy to use)

I agree, I don’t see FAS magically releasing a next gen product that will compete with L6 or the QC in UI or design. That’s just not their thing. But I don’t think they have to. Wireless editing and updating, cloud sharing, plugin integration etc. would be a dramatic step in the right direction. Then let Laxu go wild with some new button layouts and we good.

FAS will likely be another year out at a guess and we don’t know much about it size , gui etc so we can only speculate the till then or until Cliff posts a rendering of it later this year
( which is not impossible) the AX8 was revealed a year before sale and Line6 basically are still 6 months away from stadium and are showing it

The VA4 I think would be a great product and enticing at a good price point
Amps Dynacabs and maybe a bit of ambience
If he somehow manage to get the Echo/hall Echo/plate
In there so you could add a little delay verb that would be my goldilocks grab and go

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I know right? Making assumptions in a speculation thread is just beyond the pale. Some people! Geesh.

Assumptions and speculation can range anywhere from astute and logical to outright dumb.

BTW what’s with the relentless Star Trek gifs? Who are they for?

 

[FuzzyAce]

I haven't read through this whole thread.

But as I see it... it would be a huge, missed opportunity (and failure) to not release a VA4 at some point soon. It's not a direct replacement for any current product of theirs yet there is appeal for a trimmed down unit with only amps/cab IRs. I'd buy it in a second. Not exactly a fully "Next-gen" product as far as architecture/features, but something moving forward into a next-gen footprint.

 

[Whizzinby]

FAS will likely be another year out at a guess and we don’t know much about it size , gui etc so we can only speculate the till then or until Cliff posts a rendering of it later this year
( which is not impossible) the AX8 was revealed a year before sale and Line6 basically are still 6 months away from stadium and are showing it

TBH I’m in no rush. The AxeFXIII is still kicking all kinds of ass and they could in theory still bring some next gen functions to this platform. (Tablet editor, an integrated cloud sharing mechanism via Edit, plugins etc) I’d much rather they sit back and take notice of where everything is trending and then come correct with whatever their next gen offering is.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

I stand corrected. But you’ll note, again, I never said the Line 6 wasn’t a serious step up. I implied it.

Bottom line, if you like Line 6 and enjoy the gear go for it. If you think the price is fair, pay it. And I’ll do as I want and I am free to post my opinions and reasons for doing so. I’ve tried Line 6 many times. It isn’t for me and I don’t think it’s the best.

Crimes against some code I suppose.

nobody is arguing that you can’t have or express an opinion.

Of course different people with have different tonal preferences amongst all of the devices. The trend I notice with folks that have owned several devices over many weeks/months is that their tonal preferences are for specific parts of each of the devices (I'd love to have the Victoria and Ventoux amps from Helix in my Fractal, along with some Swart profile I had on my Kemper, and maybe even that UA Chandler amp model).

So when I see someone with a blanket statement about "best" amp tones it doesn't make sense to me, unless that person didn't spend much time with one or more of the devices under consideration.

Even within Fractal world you see Cliff having to tweak specific classes of amps sometimes more than others, or a value being wildly off for one specific model.

This is an even bigger deal in relation to Helix given that it is obvious that when they make improvements in how they model amps, rarely is it an "oh, cool, we can apply this to all of our models" kind of an improvement (oversampling seems to have been one exception here) -- this is born out by the fact that they are only going to have 16 new amp models using their "but now we REALLY measure and model every component really" approach to modeling. This comports with my experience that Helix amp models are more hit-or-miss as to whether I'm going to like them.

Aside from stuff like aliasing, S/N ratio, null testing for those where null testing is a possibility, etc., making an objective determination of "better" is an impossibility.

In general, I find my preferences tend to align better with what the Fractal devices kick out -- partly because their model list covers a lot more ground within my zone of preference; partly because the amps TEND to come up sounding the way I like them without need for much additional tweaking, and my GUESS is that Cliff and I just hear things more similarly than do I and the guys that are tasked with buying/modeling/tweaking the Helix amp models (see their JCM800 being wonky for so long simply because...they were modeling a JCM800 that a lot of folks would have plugged into and said "ya know, that's not the one for me").

In general, I'm just exhausted by the need to find "the best" of anything guitar related. Be it a digital processor or a guitar. Pick up a guitar, plug it in, play it. If the guitar or thing you're plugging into puts a big ol' smile on your face and you've got the means to buy it, then buy it.

 

[2112]

Cool stuff I'd like to see in the future, from the straightforward to the ridiculous.

- FM0
- Blocks library on the unit.
- Number of channels per block = number of scenes per preset.
- Amp models consolidated a'la VP4 drives. E.g select Friedman BE model and then select desired channel/switch config etc.
- Ability to customise defaults per block. For example, have a reverb block load with desired type, mix, decay & EQ.
- Expand foot switch commands to include double tap & "long double".
- Multitrack looper.
- Expand the audio interface capabilities. Mic preamp. Matrix style I/O grid & mixer.
- Fractal loadbox with built in IR loading & fx.
- More measurement tools. Speaker impedance curves, amp capture, guitar pickup profiles.
- "Amp designer"that lets users build custom models using various design "blocks" from existing models e.g Soldano front end with a Plexi tonestack and an AC30 power amp. Storage space for users to save these/share as custom models.
- "Effect designer" that lets users build their own custom algos from a block based interface (Eventide Vsig but less clunky).
- Component/capture hybrid modelling. Load a schematic of an amp, use device to take measurements of amp, have it build a custom model from scratch.
- Facial imaging for use as external controller. So I can make awful faces but have them control various effects.
- Chatbot style preset building. "FracGPT, build me a VH1 preset designed to work with a Les Paul"
- FM0

 

[Mongillo19]

One thing I loved about the amperium is that it had common mods as models inside the base model of the amp.

For example, the JCM800 had the Snorkeler mod (and a good amount more) as select various when choosing the JCM model

 

[KingsXJJ]

nobody is arguing that you can’t have or express an opinion.

Of course different people with have different tonal preferences amongst all of the devices. The trend I notice with folks that have owned several devices over many weeks/months is that their tonal preferences are for specific parts of each of the devices (I'd love to have the Victoria and Ventoux amps from Helix in my Fractal, along with some Swart profile I had on my Kemper, and maybe even that UA Chandler amp model).

So when I see someone with a blanket statement about "best" amp tones it doesn't make sense to me, unless that person didn't spend much time with one or more of the devices under consideration.

Even within Fractal world you see Cliff having to tweak specific classes of amps sometimes more than others, or a value being wildly off for one specific model.

This is an even bigger deal in relation to Helix given that it is obvious that when they make improvements in how they model amps, rarely is it an "oh, cool, we can apply this to all of our models" kind of an improvement (oversampling seems to have been one exception here) -- this is born out by the fact that they are only going to have 16 new amp models using their "but now we REALLY measure and model every component really" approach to modeling. This comports with my experience that Helix amp models are more hit-or-miss as to whether I'm going to like them.

Aside from stuff like aliasing, S/N ratio, null testing for those where null testing is a possibility, etc., making an objective determination of "better" is an impossibility.

In general, I find my preferences tend to align better with what the Fractal devices kick out -- partly because their model list covers a lot more ground within my zone of preference; partly because the amps TEND to come up sounding the way I like them without need for much additional tweaking, and my GUESS is that Cliff and I just hear things more similarly than do I and the guys that are tasked with buying/modeling/tweaking the Helix amp models (see their JCM800 being wonky for so long simply because...they were modeling a JCM800 that a lot of folks would have plugged into and said "ya know, that's not the one for me").

In general, I'm just exhausted by the need to find "the best" of anything guitar related. Be it a digital processor or a guitar. Pick up a guitar, plug it in, play it. If the guitar or thing you're plugging into puts a big ol' smile on your face and you've got the means to buy it, then buy it.

A great post and I’d agree with a lot of it. Any differences are merely quibbles.

I do enjoy seeking the best for myself. It’s fun, speaks to my passions and keeps me engaged.

Having said that and perhaps in a transparent revelation about whether I’m a perfectionist or brand snob… I play my Ampero II Stage probably more than either of my Fractal devices likely due to how easy it is to use, it’s robust feature set for home use like drums, looper, aux in, touchscreen, etc. Is it the best? No. Is it fun? Heck Yes.

I’m hoping Line 6’s next gen is killer. I’m looking forward to the Stomp or “Core” version that is priced in my “sure, I’ll try it out” range.

Exactly like the Hotone.