Next Gen Fractal Speculation Thread

[Eagle]

Plus, I get the impression Line 6 knows exactly wtf they're doing.

Yes they do but that often includes dropping a product off a cliff ( or on one from a great hight like this).

 

[Funk Soul Brother]

Probably best to take a break from all of this, come back to it when experienced-based knowledge is public, that might be quite awhile in Fractal's case...

I don't know about anyone else, but I have a lot of other priorities that I need to spend my precious time on

 

[ChordInversion]

Smaller version like AX8
With touchscreen
No USB printer port
Library on unit
Dyna cabs suite all on unit
Current AX3 power in compact floor
I would be in

Why take the USB port out? Nobody has to use it, and it may be preferable for firmware updates anyway. Some of us prefer editing on a big screen.

 

[Richard_G]

I believe he meant that he’d prefer a USB C port instead.

 

[[Nathan]]

Probably best to take a break from all of this, come back to it when experienced-based knowledge is public, that might be quite awhile in Fractal's case...

I don't know about anyone else, but I have a lot of other priorities that I need to spend my precious time on

Yep, I’ll buy the helix, I’ll buy the new fractal. Some light speculation is cool but over speculation gets exhausting, tons of cool stuff to use today!

 

[ChordInversion]

I will break with the theme of a lot of comments here and say that I care almost not at all about on-unit UX. For my use, it is a trivial consideration. All I ever learn how to do on the device is get to the TMB/gain/volume/presence controls for the amp, and sometimes to get to the controls of a pedal or another effect. (That's a mild exaggeration, but only a mild one).

The reason for my preference is simple: Whether standing or seated, with a guitar strapped on, I find hunching over/kneeling down to tap screens or grab knobs on a floor unit to be a crappy experience no matter how pretty the screen is. And if I am going to have to put the device up on a desktop to make it comfortable to use, my computer is right there anyway.

And I'd much, much rather build and edit presets and scenes on one of my 32" 4K monitors. This is true whether I am using my FM9T, TMP, or GT-1000CORE. The lack of a dedicated, enjoyable computer editor is why I tore down my IK board, sold off my Tonex, and am trying (in vain) to sell my X-Gear pedals. And the FM9 Edit software is great.

So sure, when it comes to nice to haves, add Wifi. Throw in Andorid and iOS for tablet lovers. Make the editor even better as you expand it to more platforms. That would all add value for me. I couldn't care less about cloud sharing, but hey, go nuts if you want. I'd certainly appreciate more physical knobs that legibly auto-map to whatever is relevant when a given amp or effect is chosen.

But while I certainly wouldn't tell anyone not to put effort into the on-unit UX...I truly, genuinely, deeply do not care. I love the use experience of my FM9 just as it is. I welcome it getting better, but I love it as it is.

However... I will note that the TMP is a great practice/noodling device, especially for low-effects use, because it is easy to plug in and dial in, like an amp, and easy to see where the knobs are with my suddenly failing eyes, even while standing. And while not consistently implemented, Fender's general choice to also include the in-amp trem and reverb, when appropriate, in the amp controls is a nice feature for that kind of use. But the editor is where I do my real work, in all cases. I use the touch screen as little as I can get away with, which is actually surprisingly little.

All of these companies would be wise to continue to differentitate and focus on their strenghts while shoring up the worst of their weaknesses, rather than to try to chase one another's strengths and dive completely into the "us too" thing. Guitar players win through that differentiation, too, as there ends up being something for everyone rather than 5 subtly different kinds of vanilla ice cream.

 

[ChordInversion]

To echo what I saw mentioned in the thread, I would love to see more "original" amp models, things that don't exist in the physical amp world, at least not yet. The ability to customize or even design/build one would be cool, too. That's the most interesting "next frontier" in modeling to me - the use of the technology to branch out and make new sounds.

 

[Mongillo19]

I said absolutely nothing about it not being a significant update

Great thing about the Internet

Y’all enjoy the new Helix stuff being drooled over. I’m good to wait for a SERIOUS level up.

And I'm not hounding you dude. You gotta stop playing that card when people challenge your ideas or call you out. It's just very easy to call out.

I don't care what you buy but it is low hanging fruit to say "what the hell are you talking about" when you say things like the new Line 6 isnt a serious level up or that any Line 6 model is only worth $1200. Now THAT is brand bias. If I photoshopped a fractal emblem on the stadium and said it was the new FMFractal I would bet you would have been all about it.

I have absolutely no stock and swap around my digital rig often. Again, I just find the inconsistency of your posts amusing and with this being a forum, I can reply to your post!

 

[Mongillo19]

To echo what I saw mentioned in the thread, I would love to see more "original" amp models, things that don't exist in the physical amp world, at least not yet. The ability to customize or even design/build one would be cool, too. That's the most interesting "next frontier" in modeling to me - the use of the technology to branch out and make new sounds.

Yeah that would be super neat but probably a little too much for me I'm a sucker for the OGs. However, being able to mod a jcm800 in a user friendly manner would be super cool

 

[laxu]

And I'd much, much rather build and edit presets and scenes on one of my 32" 4K monitors. This is true whether I am using my FM9T, TMP, or GT-1000CORE.

I on the other hand loathe the computer experience. Turning virtual knobs with a mouse sucks bad, and you can't get physical knobs in there without doing extensive MIDI mapping yourself. In a similar way moving sliders on a phone or tablet app sucks too.

So the best solution to me is touchscreen for selecting stuff + knobs for adjusting. Until someone figures out how to make context-based MIDI mapping child's play, I don't see this changing.

All of these companies would be wise to continue to differentitate and focus on their strenghts while shoring up the worst of their weaknesses, rather than to try to chase one another's strengths and dive completely into the "us too" thing. Guitar players win through that differentiation, too, as there ends up being something for everyone rather than 5 subtly different kinds of vanilla ice cream.

This I can agree. There's really no modeler on the market that even tries to do something different. Everything has largely the same archetype amps, cabs and effects, only the quality varies.

To echo what I saw mentioned in the thread, I would love to see more "original" amp models, things that don't exist in the physical amp world, at least not yet. The ability to customize or even design/build one would be cool, too. That's the most interesting "next frontier" in modeling to me - the use of the technology to branch out and make new sounds.

Unfortunately the buying public does not agree. They want these famous, rare and expensive amps. Line6 has a number of great custom models, so does Fractal, but they get very much overshadowed by whatever real amps get added.

Boss is the only one who leans heavier into their custom models, but only because their real amp models kinda suck. I'd like them to go all-in on custom models so people evaluate their modeling based on its own strengths rather than whether it matches exactly to whatever real amp.

The reality is that most people have not played more than a subset of the real amps offered by modelers. At Line6's 10th anniversary presentation, Digital Igloo asked how many have played a real Marshall Superlead loud. I saw no hands raised in the audience. A big number of guitarists have never experienced one of the most iconic amps in person.

There's a ton of Fractal models I have never tried so I have no idea if they are accurate or not. But I have played a Plexi loud. It's an experience for sure, and a painful one if the room is small. They get ungodly loud and having musician's earplugs actually makes the experience better because you aren't just hearing painful, loud noise and everything in the room shaking. I'd love to have the opportunity to play one of those on a big stage where it's more appropriate.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

To echo what I saw mentioned in the thread, I would love to see more "original" amp models, things that don't exist in the physical amp world, at least not yet. The ability to customize or even design/build one would be cool, too. That's the most interesting "next frontier" in modeling to me - the use of the technology to branch out and make new sounds.

On Fractal’s modellers there’s basically everything you could possibly need to design your own amplifier. So many share a similar topology and you can just tweak from there. There’s so many tools within there to create unique/new sounds, I don’t think a new platform is really going to change anything in that regard other than perhaps making it easier to do. Being able to do it yourself is WAY cooler than someone else doing it for you.

 

[ChordInversion]

I on the other hand loathe the computer experience. Turning virtual knobs with a mouse sucks bad, and you can't get physical knobs in there without doing extensive MIDI mapping yourself. In a similar way moving sliders on a phone or tablet app sucks too.

I get it. Preferences are preferences. But for all the talk about sore backs and love of light guitars, I figure some people would sure appreciate not hunching over again and again.

EDIT: A purpose built remote knob unit would be a pretty interesting idea to me.

So the best solution to me is touchscreen for selecting stuff + knobs for adjusting. Until someone figures out how to make context-based MIDI mapping child's play, I don't see this changing.

You gotta like what you like, as do I.

This I can agree. There's really no modeler on the market that even tries to do something different. Everything has largely the same archetype amps, cabs and effects, only the quality varies.

I think they differentiate some. Fender sorta started on the "emulate the analog experience" path, but then people screamed for scenes, and they've shifted a ton of focus that direction since. Fractal has a much wider range of amps than anyone else. Line6 is now staking "guitar workstation" territory. I suggest they lean into that.

Unfortunately the buying public does not agree. They want these famous, rare and expensive amps. Line6 has a number of great custom models, so does Fractal, but they get very much overshadowed by whatever real amps get added.

I love Fractal's, and would love to see more. And I contend there is no unified buying public, which is why differentiation is important. I'd rather stake a claim to a subset of players than homogenize, turning it into a single, plain vanilla winner take all landscape.

Boss is the only one who leans heavier into their custom models, but only because their real amp models kinda suck.

That's a little harsh, IMO, and maybe you have it backwards. It's just as likely the custom models are better because they found them more interesting and focused on them, and so the models of existing amps are given less attention. I don't think they said (in Japanese) "We can't do this, so we quit. We'll do this other thing to make up for it."

I'd like them to go all-in on custom models so people evaluate their modeling based on its own strengths rather than whether it matches exactly to whatever real amp.

As would I. Here's hoping.

The reality is that most people have not played more than a subset of the real amps offered by modelers. At Line6's 10th anniversary presentation, Digital Igloo asked how many have played a real Marshall Superlead loud. I saw no hands raised in the audience. A big number of guitarists have never experienced one of the most iconic amps in person.

Yep, just before he mentioned of the "hype" knob being in large part about people not really knowing how amps sound in person cranked up.

There's a ton of Fractal models I have never tried so I have no idea if they are accurate or not.

Same. I just know whether they sound good to me.

 

[ChordInversion]

On Fractal’s modellers there’s basically everything you could possibly need to design your own amplifier. So many share a similar topology and you can just tweak from there. There’s so many tools within there to create unique/new sounds, I don’t think a new platform is really going to change anything in that regard other than perhaps making it easier to do. Being able to do it yourself is WAY cooler than someone else doing it for you.

Sure, and I make use of ti ta lot. I'm really simply suggesting that maybe Fractal could just lean into that a little further with some part of the editor for people who don't know the topologies and just want to experiment and get creative.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Sure, and I make use of ti ta lot. I'm really simply suggesting that maybe Fractal could just lean into that a little further with some part of the editor for people who don't know the topologies and just want to experiment and get creative.

What sounds do you have in mind? Most of them seem to be slightly tweaked versions of common amps anyway. Maybe there’s something totally unique and wild that I’m not thinking of?

If I was picking amp models blind in any modeller, I’m not sure I’d know whether i’m playing a custom model or not. If it’s a model of a real amp that I’m not familiar with, it’s essentially no different to a custom amp to me.

The main difference is when you ARE familiar with the real thing, then you can use your real world experience to inform how you use the model, and that in itself is really useful.

 

[Rock Chalk]

I said absolutely nothing about it not being a significant update. I said if it has has a paltry number of amps at launch (like the beloved TMP) it has better best Fractal quality by a wide margin. Mind you that is against current gen Fractal gear. I don’t think it will.

Further, when we do end up comparing next gen Helix and next gen Fractal, if history is any guide I’m pretty damn sure who will remain top dog.

The new Helix gear is over priced IMO. If you don’t agree, then buy it. I’ll put my money toward the next gen Fractal.

Is there a reason you are following me around and acting butt hurt making comments? Do you own a lot of stock in Yamaha? Because you are acting a bit like you are personally invested in the Line 6 brand.

I’m not a fan boy about brands but some people are and think that others must be as well. I buy the best available on the upper side of gear. Line 6 has never been that. I also buy whatever piques my interest on the cheaper side of gear. Hotone to Nux to whatever.

Find something else to do besides hounding me please. It’s starting to become annoying. I like having fun here and this ain’t it.

Tread lightly my friend, you have triggered the great monglian 19......the greatest Barney Fife gatekeeper there ever was! When he gets it in his mind that you are brand biased, right or wrong, he will stop at nothing to bring you to justice! Just a friendly warning to you and yours......

 

[ChordInversion]

What sounds do you have in mind? Most of them seem to be slightly tweaked versions of common amps anyway. Maybe there’s something totally unique and wild that I’m not thinking of?

Something I'm not even thinking of yet. Experimentation. I do dig BOSS's X-amps, though I get that those follow a different approach and could not be "built" using models of known components. But not having something in mind is kind of the point.

If I was picking amp models blind in any modeller, I’m not sure I’d know whether i’m playing a custom model or not.

So would I. I just want the option to choose the thing that is now known.

If it’s a model of a real amp that I’m not familiar with, it’s essentially no different to a custom amp to me.

I get it. It's just a different framing at one level.

The main difference is when you ARE familiar with the real thing, then you can use your real world experience to inform how you use the model, and that in itself is really useful.

Which is why I am not suggesting they get rid of known amps. But the technology is clearly there to enable experimentation, and I find that to be fun and musically useful, too.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

“I want to experiment with sounds”

*has tools with more power to experiment than anyone could possibly need*

“I want someone to experiment for me”

IMO, Fractals editing is actually pretty ideal for doing amp tweaks because you don’t need any electrical knowledge to do the tweaks. If it was adjusting resistor and capacitor values it would be way harder. It’s simplified enough to do almost any kind of tweak you’d want to do when designing an amp, but without needing to understand anything with electronics.

Pre-made “tweaked” amps is essentially for people who like presets. Tbh, even user made presets of tweaked amps could probably achieve the same thing as unique factory models. I quite like using existing circuits as a starting point and going to town from there, but I can see the appeal for instant gratification too.

 

[laxu]

I get it. Preferences are preferences. But for all the talk about sore backs and love of light guitars, I figure some people would sure appreciate not hunching over again and again.

EDIT: A purpose built remote knob unit would be a pretty interesting idea to me.

I've been avoiding floor units because crouching down sucks and it sucks even more with hietal hernia issues. Even my pedalboard is a desktop board controlled via MIDI. If I get the Helix Stadium, that's going to be mostly a desktop unit too. Plonk it on top of an amp if going to a jam or gig.

I'd love to see a purpose build remote knob unit, where those knobs can change based on what you are editing but with no configuration needed to work with a modeler. I think with something like that it would be easier to move the touchscreen to a phone or tablet because you could just put them next to each other or however you prefer.

 

[laxu]

“I want to experiment with sounds”

*has tools with more power to experiment than anyone could possibly need*

“I want someone to experiment for me”

IMO, Fractals editing is actually pretty ideal for doing amp tweaks because you don’t need any electrical knowledge to do the tweaks. If it was adjusting resistor and capacitor values it would be way harder. It’s simplified enough to do almost any kind of tweak you’d want to do when designing an amp, but without needing to understand anything with electronics.

Pre-made “tweaked” amps is essentially for people who like presets. Tbh, even user made presets of tweaked amps could probably achieve the same thing as unique factory models. I quite like using existing circuits as a starting point and going to town from there, but I can see the appeal for instant gratification too.

If there's something I quickly learned about Fractals system, it was that I am not capable of making a better amp than what the model's maker figured out. All the advanced tweaks usually didn't result in "I like this more now".

I think there's even more people seeking instant gratification. Success of paid presets and captures tells me that. I mean Kemper is almost entirely built upon "trusted vendors" providing the best captures. If you say MBritt 3x in front of a mirror, will a capture pack appear?

 

[ChordInversion]

“I want to experiment with sounds”

*has tools with more power to experiment than anyone could possibly need*

“I want someone to experiment for me”

IMO, Fractals editing is actually pretty ideal for doing amp tweaks because you don’t need any electrical knowledge to do the tweaks. If it was adjusting resistor and capacitor values it would be way harder. It’s simplified enough to do almost any kind of tweak you’d want to do when designing an amp, but without needing to understand anything with electronics.

Pre-made “tweaked” amps is essentially for people who like presets. Tbh, even user made presets of tweaked amps could probably achieve the same thing as unique factory models. I quite like using existing circuits as a starting point and going to town from there, but I can see the appeal for instant gratification too.

I didn't say I didn't like what Fractal offers now. I also didn't say I wanted tweaked amps.

If you're trying to tell me I'm wrong for liking what I'd like, will you stop countering if I say you win?