New Friedman Brit 50

[GuitarBilly74]

When those same hobbyists and amateurs start controlling the market, is when you get serious exploitation, and fly by night rip off artists - and they deserve all they get.
Unrealistic price point manipulation. mk2 models that only fix the issues the mk1’s had. Forbidding dealers to sell used items - killing the used and trade-in value. And much much more, none good.
The honest small-time builder doesn’t get a look in, because the trade shows price the stands out of his reach.
Whereas Friedman will have a whole wall of amps.
Line 6 is a case in point. Owning a Line 6 used to be the running joke. Thanks to the amateur, semi-pro and church worship crowd - the Helix is a top seller - and what’s new? 128 presets - that’s what.
Fractal were forced into making a floorboard because of the amateur brigade. Positive grid were forced out of the market. Kemper too to some extent.
Class D amps.
Neodymium magnets.
Chinese valves.
Indonesian guitars.
And all the other stuff a pro wouldn’t piss on.

This all sounds very professional, well thought out, and not at all like the stuff my friends used to say back in the day after doing coke in the bathroom.
Agreed.

 

[Frodebro]

When those same hobbyists and amateurs start controlling the market, is when you get serious exploitation, and fly by night rip off artists - and they deserve all they get.
Unrealistic price point manipulation. mk2 models that only fix the issues the mk1’s had. Forbidding dealers to sell used items - killing the used and trade-in value. And much much more, none good.
The honest small-time builder doesn’t get a look in, because the trade shows price the stands out of his reach.
Whereas Friedman will have a whole wall of amps.
Line 6 is a case in point. Owning a Line 6 used to be the running joke. Thanks to the amateur, semi-pro and church worship crowd - the Helix is a top seller - and what’s new? 128 presets - that’s what.
Fractal were forced into making a floorboard because of the amateur brigade. Positive grid were forced out of the market. Kemper too to some extent.
Class D amps.
Neodymium magnets.
Chinese valves.
Indonesian guitars.
And all the other stuff a pro wouldn’t piss on.

The amateurs and hobbyists have controlled the market since Day One. All of these companies that cater to that market are more interested in sustaining successful businesses than they are with impressing the internet.

Here's something else that is going to take another piece out of your perception of things: The top selling amps and guitars (you know, the actual numbers on the spreadsheet that keep the ink black instead of red) are all the sub-$1,000 entry to intermediate level gear. That's what generates the primary revenue stream. Marshall sells a shit ton more Origin 20s than they do JCM and 1987 reissues combined. The pros with endorsements are there for marketing, not as a primary revenue source.

The automotive industry worked in much the same way for decades with their factory sponsored race cars. The old saying was "Win on Sunday, sell on Monday." But people weren't buying race prepped stock cars, they were buying the much less expensive street versions.

 

[[Nathan]]

The black/gold style on this one and the be-100D are just so epic. Great sounds, sees like it would take a proper boost/gate into epic drop tuned metal turf.

The only demerit that will stay with this amp forever is that presence knob placement on the back…. Absolutely terrible choices were made there.

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

The amateurs and hobbyists have controlled the market since Day One. All of these companies that cater to that market are more interested in sustaining successful businesses than they are with impressing the internet.

Here's something else that is going to take another piece out of your perception of things: The top selling amps and guitars (you know, the actual numbers on the spreadsheet that keep the ink black instead of red) are all the sub-$1,000 entry to intermediate level gear. That's what generates the primary revenue stream. Marshall sells a shit ton more Origin 20s than they do JCM and 1987 reissues combined. The pros with endorsements are there for marketing, not as a primary revenue source.

The automotive industry worked in much the same way for decades with their factory sponsored race cars. The old saying was "Win on Sunday, sell on Monday." But people weren't buying race prepped stock cars, they were buying the much less expensive street versions.

Interesting take. To quote my old boss at the amp company "if it weren't for amateurs we wouldn't eat".

So yeah I get how the market is controlled by it's target audience. Which is amateurs and weekenders.

The thought its controlled by pros is odd.
Likely comes from the oddball notion small builders put out that there's no free gear, everybody pays.

But what I've seen is this.
When I started playing in bands nearly 5 decades ago we all got used amps. Like sellers, Hiwatts, Marshalls obviously

None if that gave us the gain we wanted so it was treble boosters. Fuzzes, Dist+ and Super Distortion pickups.

And we found guys to hack the Marshalls that we like 200 bucks at the most to hack them.

Most of us didn't have any real bread for gear.
And mostly we had nothing but Gibson or Fender, and if course law suit Ibanez and their early Roadsters.

The price explosion started with Charvel and Jackson before they sold. And actually we're bitchen. That started it all.

The Dumble, Kelley, Trainwreck stuff didn't have the traction of early Mesa.
And I remember I brought my first Mesa back the same week saying it was broken. Guy plays it. Nope that's what they sound like.
Ugh

I stay with my modded Marshalls.
The only think that temporarily got me away from them were the GK 250.

But we're it started turning was Rivera.
All the Soldani, Bogner, VHT stuff came after.

And really no one cared anywhere about gear as folks do now.

I hold guitar journalism and then the Internet responsible.

 

[Solarflares]

Interesting take. To quote my old boss at the amp company "if it weren't for amateurs we wouldn't eat".

So yeah I get how the market is controlled by it's target audience. Which is amateurs and weekenders.

The thought its controlled by pros is odd.
Likely comes from the oddball notion small builders put out that there's no free gear, everybody pays.

But what I've seen is this.
When I started playing in bands nearly 5 decades ago we all got used amps. Like sellers, Hiwatts, Marshalls obviously

None if that gave us the gain we wanted so it was treble boosters. Fuzzes, Dist+ and Super Distortion pickups.

And we found guys to hack the Marshalls that we like 200 bucks at the most to hack them.

Most of us didn't have any real bread for gear.
And mostly we had nothing but Gibson or Fender, and if course law suit Ibanez and their early Roadsters.

The price explosion started with Charvel and Jackson before they sold. And actually we're bitchen. That started it all.

The Dumble, Kelley, Trainwreck stuff didn't have the traction of early Mesa.
And I remember I brought my first Mesa back the same week saying it was broken. Guy plays it. Nope that's what they sound like.
Ugh

I stay with my modded Marshalls.
The only think that temporarily got me away from them were the GK 250.

But we're it started turning was Rivera.
All the Soldani, Bogner, VHT stuff came after.

And really no one cared anywhere about gear as folks do now.

I hold guitar journalism and then the Internet responsible.

I’ll formulate a glowing reply just as soon as I’ve got a coffee down my neck and finished this spliff.

 

[laxu]

Line 6 is a case in point. Owning a Line 6 used to be the running joke. Thanks to the amateur, semi-pro and church worship crowd - the Helix is a top seller - and what’s new? 128 presets - that’s what.
Fractal were forced into making a floorboard because of the amateur brigade. Positive grid were forced out of the market. Kemper too to some extent.

Because nobody but amateurs might want something that is not a rack format device, right? Something that they can easily put fit on a small stage, doesn't require a separate controller etc.

Positive Grid wasn't forced out of the market. They just didn't make a good enough product.
Kemper sat on their laurels for years rather than innovating.

Class D amps.

Are more efficient, run cooler and are more compact than other types. Whether you like their sound or whatever is secondary, it's technological progress nonetheless.

Neodymium magnets.

Are lighter than their ceramic/alnico variants, allowing for more portable cabs. But of course everyone who is a somebody has a fleet of roadies at their beck and call, right?

Chinese valves.

Instead of Russian valves? If Chinese valves didn't exist, we wouldn't have anything but JJ valves to choose from as brand new ones at the moment due to Russian sanctions.

Indonesian guitars.

Instead of Japanese, South Korean, Vietnamese or Chinese? Guitar manufacturers have always built factories in countries where they have good supply of wood and labor, with local prices allowing them to push consumer price point further down.

I currently own an Indonesian made Ibanez BTB33 bass and a Schecter Coupe hollowbody. Both are near flawlessly built, I couldn't really hope for much better from them. If that's what Indonesian guitars mean, keep 'em coming!

And all the other stuff a pro wouldn’t piss on.

Would it terrify you to learn that e.g Iron Maiden uses the Line6 HX Effects? But that's not a professional band, right?

Pros will use whatever is practical for them, and they are not a monolith. There's pros with a huge support crew playing stadiums, to pros who haul their own amp in a dinky van to play the Bumfuckville community theater, or pros who put their modeler in a backpack and bicycle to the gig at the local watering hole.

 

[Solarflares]

I fucking hate multi-quotes.
It’s hard work to reply.
From bottom to top.

I had a unit next to Iron Maiden’s storage unit. The guitar sounds coming from there were frankly horrendous, and I often remember that twat when he put Super Distortions in Paul Kossoff’s old Strat. So no yardstick of anything.

Not just Indonesian guitars, but Indonesian tone-wood. Shit quality. Chinese parts. Fender and Gibson operated solely in the USA for 40 years making electric guitars - before entering the budget market. If some venture capitalist wants to flood your amateur market with crap foreign shite, then I don’t care - but ffs aspire to something man.

I’m still buying NOS St.Petersburg Svetlana’s, and have a good source for above-spec used Mullards - enough to see me out. Chinese valves totally suck arse. They know it. We know it. Why don’t you?

Class D amps are not technical progress. They have inherent distortion problems, and are purely a cost-cutting exercise to keep your amateur products affordable enough so you’ll jump. They know it. We know it. Catch up chummy.

Neodymium magnets, same as above - except they’re cunts.

Positive grid were the best guitar modeller in their day. They were however terribly noisy at high-gain - just like all the others are now. There’s no way I use a gate on guitar, just for casual playing. Their inability to produce a timely floorboard was their downfall. Same goes for Kemper probably.

 

[2dor]

Forum narrative here: “Friedmans are too dark and bassy and lose the essence of what makes a great Marshall. I’ll go for a Bogner instead”.

There are tons of Marshall circuits that are flubbier/thicker than a Friedman, especially the newer Friedman circuits which tend to lean more bright+aggressive than the older ones.

I love a Bogner but they’re voiced right on the cusp of what is way too dark. Friedmans are bang in the middle with enough control to take it in any direction without going weird

Yeah, the Plex and the Jose are incredibly bitey; very different from say the BE100-Deluxe. They can do Marshall-style aggression / grit with ease.

 

[laxu]

I fucking hate multi-quotes.
It’s hard work to reply.
From bottom to top.

You can just put your cursor where you want to reply, hit enter and it splits the quote at that part.

Not just Indonesian guitars, but Indonesian tone-wood. Shit quality. Chinese parts. Fender and Gibson operated solely in the USA for 40 years making electric guitars - before entering the budget market. If some venture capitalist wants to flood your amateur market with crap foreign shite, then I don’t care - but ffs aspire to something man.

Guess what is "foreign shite" to a Finn? US made guitars. I don't buy Gibson because I've played way too many subpar guitars from that brand. That doesn't mean I have anything against US made guitars. I have a US made Fender, G&L, Carvin and Kiesel that are all fine instruments.

In a global economy it doesn't mean anything to me whether a guitar comes from America, Europe, or Asia. All that matters is the quality of that guitar.

I currently own guitars made in:

• Finland
• Poland
• Slovenia
• USA
• Canada
• Japan
• China
• Indonesia
• South Korea

They're all good instruments.

I’m still buying NOS St.Petersburg Svetlana’s, and have a good source for above-spec used Mullards - enough to see me out. Chinese valves totally suck arse. They know it. We know it. Why don’t you?

I looked at what Svetlana/SED =C= 6L6GC tubes cost. I really wanted to buy some for my Mesa Mark V, because the old pair from my stash sounded so great in the inner powertube sockets. I wasn't willing to spend about 400 € on a pair of powertubes.

I bought a pair of TAD Redbase 6L6GCM-STR and those were close enough to the SEDs at a fraction of the cost.

Class D amps are not technical progress. They have inherent distortion problems, and are purely a cost-cutting exercise to keep your amateur products affordable enough so you’ll jump. They know it. We know it. Catch up chummy.

Yet here I am, using a BluGuitar Amp 1 ME with a Class D poweramp for 6 years so far, happy as a clam. With no "inherent distortion problems".

To me it sounds like you are just basically "anti everything new" here.

 

[Solarflares]

I understand that.
I’m not a Luddite though.
I pushed the envelopes back in my day, and still do.
Yes, there were compromises, but I never went willingly backwards.
But it seems that the dummy-market today will take anything, so long as costs are kept comparatively low, and the retrograde hobbling of potentials is annoying to witness - especially when these types lobby the market to do even more dumb shit.

TAD suck arse. eBay has NOS Svetlana winged -C from St.Petersburg at £120 a matched pair. Only one seller left, but he has thousands.

You probably have too many guitars.
Yes, all foreign muck! Lol
That Yank shit is the worst. Mostly leather-clad faggots toting limp-wristed 24.75”-scale gaily-finished toys in drop-C. Fucking Bible-thumpers, with their Church-worship Helix threads! Only now, they can marry each other, and adopt children.
Probably those kids are to blame for everything. With an upbringing like that - is it any wonder they are playing Korean guitars, through a glorified Speak and Spell - into a shit box speaker whose magnets are forged from the Devil’s turds?

 

[JiveTurkey]

 

[Baba]

 

[JiveTurkey]

Once I start thinking about Marshall-styled stuff and toggles/switches/modes/etc.; the Victory Sherriff comes back around as an option as well. Pricing is pretty nuts right now and resale (if that matters) doesn't seem to be great? Or at least might take some work outside of the "take it back to GC or sell to GC for 47% of what you originally paid"

 

[Solarflares]

Once I start thinking about Marshall-styled stuff and toggles/switches/modes/etc.; the Victory Sherriff comes back around as an option as well. Pricing is pretty nuts right now and resale (if that matters) doesn't seem to be great? Or at least might take some work outside of the "take it back to GC or sell to GC for 47% of what you originally paid"

It depends.
Do you mean the Super-Sheriffs, or the first ones?
I can certainly help you get what you want from a used Sheriff 44, which isn’t too pricey, and available.

 

[laxu]

eBay has NOS Svetlana winged -C from St.Petersburg at £120 a matched pair. Only one seller left, but he has thousands.

Would not mind a link! Still need to pay shipping and VAT on it but might be more feasible.

 

[JiveTurkey]

It depends.
Do you mean the Super-Sheriffs, or the first ones?
I can certainly help you get what you want from a used Sheriff 44, which isn’t too pricey, and available.

Good catch. Super is the new version, correct?

 

[Solarflares]

Good catch. Super is the new version, correct?

Yes it is. Has more gain and 2-position mid-voicing - with a better fx-loop. Also rear adjustment for bass resonance and two-position presence voicing. They altered the negative feedback circuit a little.

Sheriff 44 is great if you have the gain up full, with the master on 7, at high-output 44W.
Effects loop is not to be used. You will probably have to run the treble and presence around 1. Bass 4. Mid full.
This affects gain, so a Koko Boost with both controls at 12 ‘o clock, with the rear mid-switch left as you look down from the front.
I changed to Svetlana winged-C, and then also to vintage Mullards for the pre-amp.
Channel 1 is proper. Approaching Jimi Hendrix. Channel 2 with the Koko boost on, is straight in the modified Marshalls camp - but has less noise (Mullards). Very happy with Strats. Enough gain with the boost to cover 80’s rock, and with Mullards - the rest.
All in adjustable bias/fixed bias. I don’t use the valve-wearing Cathode bias option. Loop is turned off.
Yeah great amp.
But be prepared for it to only respond fully with my settings, so you may need an adjustable attenuator to trim output level. Higher settings of treble and presence will increase gain but also produce noise.
The master should be left at 7. Any higher, and there’s too much negative feedback.

If you want loop effects, then get a reactive load with an XLR out, and run that to your effects, then run that to a second amp’s fx-return. A simulated or IR output, might be great, to give more of a refined studio sound. You need an accessible little passive-attenuator box before Amp 2 to control final level.

Run it from an APC UPS, with audiophile, shielded mains cable - and the amp will be virtually silent at full input gain, even with single-coils on 8. No hum, no hiss. Hit the strings and Blam!

 

[mbenigni]

Why spend $3,000 on a Friedman when you can get all the tones you need with a $100 pedal?

No joke, when I was in my 20's I ran an MT2 into the clean channel of a Mesa MkIV for a while.

(I also sold a MkIIc+ for a few hundred bucks thinking, "I'll just use the MT2 for now and pickup another Boogie later..." So yeah, I'm an idiot. )

 

[mbenigni]

Don’t be a peasant. Everyone knows you need the Wazacraft version to get sweet, sweet tones.

<insert Grey Poupon commercial>

 

[mbenigni]

I’ll formulate a glowing reply just as soon as I’ve got a coffee down my neck and finished this spliff.

I read your "stuff pros wouldn't piss on" post. I advise two coffees; no spliff.