NDSP Quad Cortex

bloodoff said:
Then let’s get back to bashing NDSP! 😂
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yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay :LOL:

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Chocol8 said:
OTOH, I will pre-order the Wampler Pedalhead day 1. I don't care if it isn't fully flushed out (they have hinted at possible updated functionality after launch) as long as I think what is included day one is worthy of purchasing. Heck, I wish I could have one now with their beta test amp sims, and I would happily wait for the release software and the post release updates. That's not an option because apparently the DSP chips are not available to put the hardware into production. So not really anyone's choice, but if it was possible, why shouldn't I be able to put my money down knowing the risks?
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Knowing the risks is a HUGE changing factor, but I do not believe the “buy now, get later” model allows for people to truly know the risk, unless they just assume not getting anything at all is the risk.

In the context of the QC, there are plenty of people who sold theirs while waiting for NDSP to make good and I’d have to believe that if they were aware ahead of time that’s how it was going to go, they would have just waited to buy it.

Without being able to clearly define what will be added to a product after purchase, the risk cannot be properly stated. With the way software changes during development, I don’t even think it’s possible to clearly define it in a way that removes all subjectivity. Look at the last two pages of this thread where I’m being asked “What did NDSP fail to deliver?”, my assumption is that those asking that question believe NDSP delivered the whole time and everything has been on the up and up, while my post and others in this thread point out the things they did not deliver at all or in a timely manner.

That kind of subjectivity will not allow for the risks to be fully known.
 
DrewJD82 said:
You’re not getting my point, this has nothing to do with not getting specific features you want and is 100% to do with the fact we, as consumers, have allowed the “It’s not finished yet, but buy it anyway and we’ll get to that shit later” model to enter the gear world. Previous to the QC, I only saw this stuff happen in video games, but it most certainly existed in other areas of the tech world as well.

You don’t go buy a new vehicle that looks like it’s ready to drive off the lot, only to find that it only moves forward in gears 1, 3 and 5 because the maker is still figuring out how to make it move forward in gears 2 and 4, you buy a vehicle that’s ready to go the day you buy it. The same goes for any physical product. I would love to see a company try putting forth a product with the same logic as the tech world, Hasbro releases some new action figures “Folks, these are going to be a hit with your kids! Sure, they’re only 75% completed now but they can start playing with them and maybe pretend they’re still growing! Next year when we have the legs completed they’ll have a blast!”

I don’t believe that just because that model exists in the tech world that it HAS to be a feature of the gear world that utilizes technology, but realize it’s already too late and I think it absolutely fucking blows that the common consumer is happy* with this model. They’re so happy with it that a company can sell you a product that’s 75% complete and when you show up for a status update on the remaining 25%, the consumers who got their shit already will tell you you’re entitled, a whiner and you’re the problem, it’s definitely not the company that hasn’t upheld their word. You should just get over it, it’s just the way it is.

I think it’s irresponsible on the consumer’s end to support that model, rather than demanding the model changes. It’s saying “I will gladly pay you 100% of the cost for 75% of your product and if you don’t get me that last 25%, well, it is what it is and I should stop being entitled to 100% of my money”

As for specific items they haven’t delivered, it wasn’t the point of my gripe and I haven’t paid attention in quite a while. It doesn’t really matter anyway because their customers are so thrilled to not have it they’re lining up for seconds. And before someone uses that last bit as a point of “Shouldn’t that tell you that while the company didn’t deliver what they said they would, what they DID deliver was so good people didn’t care?”, because to that my reply is “You’re merely lucky it worked out that way, there was no guarantee it was going to go this way and this model will always be a gamble, rather than confirmation you’re getting exactly what you want, which I find irresp
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With all due respect, IMHO this idea of 75% complete or 100% complete is meaningless when applied to the amp sim products in question here. These are development platforms that are specifically designed to be enhanced for years to come. It's a model that is quite popular with customers, so it's hard to understand how this could be the evil slippery slope that you're describing.
 
DrewJD82 said:
Knowing the risks is a HUGE changing factor, but I do not believe the “buy now, get later” model allows for people to truly know the risk, unless they just assume not getting anything at all is the risk.
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That's exactly the assumption. Kickstarter built a whole ecosystem around pay now and maybe get absolutely nothing, maybe get shit, maybe get a deal. People know damn well that it is risky but they are still choosing to participate.

My take on the QC was that it was a small young company, they might not be able to deliver, and worse, the stupid cloud features could mean they could go under or drop out of the hardware market and leave the existing units neutered. I posted about these things on TOP, and there was active discussion from others about these risks as well. Everyone pre-ordering had to know there was a risk they would get nothing, a risk that missing features might never show up, and the risk that the cloud would go away killing the capture market and other functionality.

In fact, it wasn't until the success of the Nano Cortex that I started to get comfortable that NDSP could stay in business. At this point I think the risk of buying a QC mini is pretty low, but any music company can go under, even Fender. So yeah, buy now based on what the product does now, wait until it does what you want, or take a gamble. Everyone has to make up their own decision based on their wants and needs. Heck, should Stadium have not shipped until it has a full compliments of Mark and Dual Rectifier models, or should it have not shipped until it has Proxy, or should it have not shipped until showcase is fleshed out? Different people are going to have different answers. I am not going to pretend to know the correct answer for anyone but me.
 
I’m sorry, but how is one company publicly telling people x features won’t be available at launch the same thing as another company that started changing their available features during preorder and still not having everything done 5 years later? I was one of those people who cancelled a preorder in 2020 and sold a couple plugin licenses because it was fairly obvious that PCOM was not going to be a day one feature and there was no idea of a timeline.
 
ian_dissonance said:
I’m sorry, but how is one company publicly telling people x features won’t be available at launch the same thing as another company that started changing their available features during preorder and still not having everything done 5 years later? I was one of those people who cancelled a preorder in 2020 and sold a couple plugin licenses because it was fairly obvious that PCOM was not going to be a day one feature and there was no idea of a timeline.
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Your description doesn't ring true for me.
 
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