NDSP Quad Cortex

[AlbertA]

I was curious to see what DAC and ADCs they used on the previous revision, someone did a teardown video:

 

[dean701]

I was curious to see what DAC and ADCs they used on the previous revision, someone did a teardown video:

This video actually alleviated some of my overheating related design concerns.

 

[texhex]

Thank you @2112 for bringing up this Micro Processor Block in one of your QC videos! It works so well as a Delay. I freaking love it.

I'm still chasing the AXE 2290 for the QC but the Micro Processor in the QC is pretty damn nice.

 

[2112]

Thank you @2112 for bringing up this Micro Processor Block in one of your QC videos! It works so well as a Delay. I freaking love it.

I'm still chasing the AXE 2290 for the QC but the Micro Processor in the QC is pretty damn nice.

You can try something like a 500ms/505ms delay pairing to get that "super wide" thing the 2290 achieves with phase reversal.

 

[DrewJD82]

There's A LOT to unpack here, and I'm going to have to try to keep this relatively brief. Suffice to say, I absolutely get where you're coming from. The relationship between vendors and customers has changed profoundly in recent years, for a lot of different reasons - chief among them, the rate at which we consume products/ services and then move onto new ones almost immediately. This means the cost of satisfying a customer might not be offset by the value of that customer's loyalty. And yes, the fact that so many products are just vehicles for fluid, digital content that can be "spackled over" if early adopters squawk loud enough has disincentivized proper (costly) QA.

COVID, of course, had a BIG impact as well. A lot of people forget how much we're still feeling the impact of this in terms of economy and culture. The workforce was upended in a lot of ways; supply chains went nuts; costs skyrocketed for customers and vendors alike.

And yes, the QC arrived right in the thick of it, and yes, there were a lot of issues. (I still shake my head at the screen shots of the editor on Sweetwater's web page.) But when you write things like, "'Buy it for what it does now' did not exist before the QC and now it’s mentioned in *every* digital device launch", I can't help but think that you're overstating the NDSP's relevance, and the role they played in all of these trends. As portended by e.g. (but not only) the games industry, this was the path we were on; NDSP didn't open some Pandora's Box. I could argue that this confuses cause and effect, meaning: the QC launch didn't cause these trends; these trends caused the wobbly QC launch.

Of course, the actual truth is probably a bit of both.

I mostly agree with that as the sentiment had been around video games for a while, I swore off pre-orders as a result of The Division a good 5 years before the QC was even launched. I think it would have been a lot cooler had it just not become an aspect of the music gear world and hope it’s a short-lived aspect of it, though I believe the hand waving to it al, or being told one is entitled or unreasonable for holding a company accountable to their word is evidence that we’re too far gone to turn that ship around.

At the end of the day, the worst case scenario with this is NDSP closing doors and shutting down their cloud. The world would certainly carry on and I’m not even suggesting or thinking that’ll happen, but I think it really sucks that the entire ‘buy it for what it does now’ sentiment has to exist in the premium gear world at all and I can’t wrap my head around why people so willingly accept it. I can’t logically understand how we’re to maintain to reasonable sense of value if the buying public is willing to accept 75% in a place where it was absurd to expect nothing less than 100%, while telling you you’re unreasonable to expect the 100%.

Edit- not sure how that double/edit post happened?

 

[Orvillain]

Honestly @DrewJD82, you're not making a whole ton of sense to me. I've certainly been known to hate on NeuralDSP and the QC, but I try to keep a level head about it. I don't understand why "buy it for what it does now" is a sentiment that you think shouldn't exist when it comes to premium gear. In my view, it is a pretty reasonable way for someone to handle their expectations.

A trivial example. I'm a Fractal user, and I'm used to being able to route the "shunts" where ever I want, criss-crossing all over the 4x12 grid. I then buy a Quad Cortex, all the while thinking to myself, "no worries, I'm sure they'll add that feature in the future - this is premium gear!"

.... I mean.... spelt out like that, I'm a bit of a fucking idiot for thinking that they'll add that feature, as I lay down my credit card, right?

I would have completely misunderstood the intent of the product, and the desired user experience. If I then have the temerity to get uppity that after a few years they've not added the feature that I had baselessly hyped myself up over .... it isn't really NeuralDSP's fault in such a situation, and as a consumer, I really need my head examined!

And people do this stuff all the time. It is quite funny and tragic in a way.

So... I think I asked it before, but what are the tangible things that Neural haven't delivered on, from their original pre-orders feature list?

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

Honestly @DrewJD82, you're not making a whole ton of sense to me. I've certainly been known to hate on NeuralDSP and the QC, but I try to keep a level head about it. I don't understand why "buy it for what it does now" is a sentiment that you think shouldn't exist when it comes to premium gear. In my view, it is a pretty reasonable way for someone to handle their expectations.

A trivial example. I'm a Fractal user, and I'm used to being able to route the "shunts" where ever I want, criss-crossing all over the 4x12 grid. I then buy a Quad Cortex, all the while thinking to myself, "no worries, I'm sure they'll add that feature in the future - this is premium gear!"

.... I mean.... spelt out like that, I'm a bit of a fucking idiot for thinking that they'll add that feature, as I lay down my credit card, right?

I would have completely misunderstood the intent of the product, and the desired user experience. If I then have the temerity to get uppity that after a few years they've not added the feature that I had baselessly hyped myself up over .... it isn't really NeuralDSP's fault in such a situation, and as a consumer, I really need my head examined!

And people do this stuff all the time. It is quite funny and tragic in a way.

So... I think I asked it before, but what are the tangible things that Neural haven't delivered on, from their original pre-orders feature list?

Yeah, Atomic suffered from this. Folks were convinced it was going to become a Helix via firmware upgrades. Folks weren't being remotely reasonable about what the base architecture of the unit was or recognizing that something they were asking for/expecting was going to require fundamental re-write of the entire device. The AA12 on release was right up in what was considered premium at the time, and "buy it for what it is; don't expect firmware updates; be grateful if they do come" was every other post about anyone considering buying one of those products.


Kemper pre-announcing firmware updates that were months-to-years to materialize led to the phrase being used for it well before QC came along.

Hell, even with Helix at various times the phrase was used.

The phrase is used not simply as a hedge against "firmware updates might not come", but also just as a fundamental recognition that even if firmware updates come flying in at twice-a-month pace, you can't predict or have any control over what is going to be in those updates. See Fractal Klon Drama.

And while Line 6 is sufficiently robust enough in various ways that a Major Catastrophic Event with one of Helix's team members (moving on to a different gig; major health issues; whatever) isn't going to be the end of the line, even for that team it'd be a MAJOR disruption. Marc Gallo splitting ways with Atomic has equaled the death of their entire amplifire line of products in terms of service/updates; something happening with/to Christophe and/or Cliff would likely be catastrophic to development of those products on a meaningful timeline for current users.

We're not buying stuff from Samsung, or even Yamaha Music. At best, you're buying from a very small subsidiary of the music subsidiary of Yamaha. In general, you're buying from a small start-up-ish company. That Fractal has managed to pull of steady firmware update flow and Helix for the most part has surprised everyone that didn't think Line 6 had it in 'em, there isn't anywhere NEAR enough basis in fact within this technology sector to have the advice for any product, FRACTAL INCLUDED, to be anything but "buy it for what it is today." And it is those facts that have made it an often-spoken phrase by lots of the smartest forum posters in this sector since well before QC came on the scene.

 

[laxu]

I think I asked it before, but what are the tangible things that Neural haven't delivered on, from their original pre-orders feature list?

Plugin compatibility can still be considered a very long and slow road.
Plus I'm not sure if they've ever solved those power supply issues?

For me the problem has been their promises vs actual results. When the QC was released, we saw a lot of "soon", "should be easy", and lots of "this is what we are working on" features that at a glance look like they are almost ready, but in reality were nothing more than mockups and it took them years to implement.

t the end of the day, the worst case scenario with this is NDSP closing doors and shutting down their cloud. The world would certainly carry on and I’m not even suggesting or thinking that’ll happen, but I think it really sucks that the entire ‘buy it for what it does now’ sentiment has to exist in the premium gear world at all and I can’t wrap my head around why people so willingly accept it. I can’t logically understand how we’re to maintain to reasonable sense of value if the buying public is willing to accept 75% in a place where it was absurd to expect nothing less than 100%, while telling you you’re unreasonable to expect the 100%.

Any product with a software component is rarely 100% complete. Either its issues remain unresolved, or it gets better gradually. So what can you do? Wait until it's where you want it to be, go with another product or jump in knowing that there will be some things that aren't the way you prefer.

That's where trust comes in. People trust that Line6 or Fractal will keep improving their boxes at least until a next gen successor comes out. By comparison people have very low expectations from Boss so they go in fully expecting zero improvement. NDSP, Kemper, Hotone etc live somewhere between these two extremes where people hope they add and fix things, but aren't confident it will happen.

I'm less excited by modelers these days so I've chosen to step back a bit and go for a "wait and see" approach. The Fractal AM4 ticks a lot of boxes for me, but I'm not confident in its ease of use. Helix Stadium I know is going to be fun to use, but its feature set is still a work in progress so I can just wait and see.

It's generally not the best idea to be an early adapter for any product. I won't buy any new 1st gen Apple products, because there's so many examples of the 2nd gen solving some key issues.

I recently upgraded my AV receiver. I had been using a 15+ years old Denon. The Denon's user interface sucks so bad that there used to be a "Batpig's Denon-to-English" guide for configuring it. The new unit I bought is an Onkyo from one of their lower cost lines. I picked that one specifically because it has the least amount of fancy features. It just does audio well, with room correction, and not much else. No integrated Spotify, Alexa, mobile apps etc. This approach was done with the intent of avoiding software based issues by keeping the feature set simple.

 

[deadpool_25]

I understand the annoyance with the fact that companies put out things that are unfinished. That feels like it didn’t really used to be the case. I’m not sure that’s really true though?

The old school line 6 stuff was put out when it was “finished”. Kinda. If I recall correctly even my HD500 got an update or two. But it didn’t feel like it reallly needed it outside of bug fixes. Or at least I wasn’t expecting them to add/change things. I bought it knowing what it was and accepting those.

In my mind, Fractal was the first in this space to make regular firmware updates a thing. Even then it was taking a “finished” product and updating it with cool new features and upgrades. And because they showed that ability and willingness, people asked for things that wouldn’t have been considered part of the products and Fractal actually delivered some of those things. After a while the Fractals were significantly different than they were at launch.

I believe this created a culture (in the modeling space) where companies felt like it was okay to release a product that they knew would evolve over time. The nature of that evolution was different though and became one where the initial release was something we probably wouldn’t have been satisfied with before Fractal changed the game (and again, that’s not what Fractal did; their model just opened the door for that path to exist).

NDSP was one of the early ones to really take this to an extreme. They announced the QC with a bunch of promises about what it would eventually be, but it was far from that at launch. I think that was the biggest example of this.

I preordered the QC and canceled that order before it launched because I didn’t like what I heard about how few of those promises would be in there at launch. And the months after launch were a bit of a shit show. People had trusted the company to deliver on their promises quickly (because the company said things would be easy). The promises were soon considered broken and people all over, including me, were trashing the company to differing degrees. Some people eventually pushed back against the folks who were angry about the broken promises, saying “well you should have bought it based on what it does, not what they said it would do.” Which was unfair imo. Everyone has different levels of trust and patience. It was inevitable that some people would trust NDSP to varying degrees.

While I was disappointed in that whole situation and absolutely agree that “mistakes were made”, I wasn’t as angry about it as some folks. I just waited. I had a few Fractal devices along the way so I was happy and patient and figured if the QC ever got to a point where I was interested again, I’d try it. It did, I did, and I’m happy with it. I’d been annoyed at the company, but not annoyed enough that I gave up on the QC which I originally had very high hopes for (primarily due to the promise of PCOM).

While *I* wasn’t annoyed enough to give up on the company in total, I can understand why some would be. It’s not at all surprising that some people would feel like that.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

I understand the annoyance with the fact that companies put out things that are unfinished. That feels like it didn’t really used to be the case. I’m not sure that’s really true though?

The old school line 6 stuff was put out when it was “finished”. Kinda. If I recall correctly even my HD500 got an update or two. But it didn’t feel like it reallly needed it outside of bug fixes. Or at least I wasn’t expecting them to add/change things. I bought it knowing what it was and accepting those.

In my mind, Fractal was the first in this space to make regular firmware updates a thing. Even then it was taking a “finished” product and updating it with cool new features and upgrades. And because they showed that ability and willingness, people asked for things that wouldn’t have been considered part of the products and Fractal actually delivered some of those things. After a while the Fractals were significantly different than they were at launch.

I believe this created a culture (in the modeling space) where companies felt like it was okay to release a product that they knew would evolve over time. The nature of that evolution was different though and became one where the initial release was something we probably wouldn’t have been satisfied with before Fractal changed the game (and again, that’s not what Fractal did; their model just opened the door for that path to exist).

NDSP was one of the early ones to really take this to an extreme. They announced the QC with a bunch of promises about what it would eventually be, but it was far from that at launch. I think that was the biggest example of this.

I preordered the QC and canceled that order before it launched because I didn’t like what I heard about how few of those promises would be in there at launch. And the months after launch were a bit of a shit show. People had trusted the company to deliver on their promises quickly (because the company said things would be easy). The promises were soon considered broken and people all over, including me, were trashing the company to differing degrees. Some people eventually pushed back against the folks who were angry about the broken promises, saying “well you should have bought it based on what it does, not what they said it would do.” Which was unfair imo. Everyone has different levels of trust and patience. It was inevitable that some people would trust NDSP to varying degrees.

While I was disappointed in that whole situation and absolutely agree that “mistakes were made”, I wasn’t as angry about it as some folks. I just waited. I had a few Fractal devices along the way so I was happy and patient and figured if the QC ever got to a point where I was interested again, I’d try it. It did, I did, and I’m happy with it. I’d been annoyed at the company, but not annoyed enough that I gave up on the QC which I originally had very high hopes for (primarily due to the promise of PCOM).

While *I* wasn’t annoyed enough to give up on the company in total, I can understand why some would be. It’s not at all surprising that some people would feel like that.

Helix felt like the first product that genuinely had a "as long as we have these parts working let's release it, even if our vision for the product is that it will be able to do these other things that we're still working on". The Fractal stuff always felt like the release was the envisioned product, working the way it was meant to work, and that the firmware updates weren't "finishing things up" but "adding new ideas". What Helix got right was not revealing that that was the plan until after the fact. Neural erred in two ways:

(1). Talking about their vision for the future of the product ahead of time and...
(2). Taking pre-order money from people and then taking waaaaaaaaay longer to deliver than they thought it was going to. Yeah, you could get a refund and stuff (my memory is very hazy on this part), but the "huh, they're taking money from people like a Kickstarter?!?" aspect of it is what really struck a nerve with me and kept me holding onto my baggage about the brand longer than I would have otherwise. Fuck with a man's head all you want; not his wallet.

 

[Jarick]

tl;dr- far less about the QC itself and entirely to do with principles surrounding giving a company money and how a company conducts business. Working in customer-facing positions for 30 years has given me a lot of perspective on customer care and I’m holding NDSP to the exact same standard I hold myself to when handling customers/tenants/guests.

NDSP has dug themselves a lot of holes regarding the QC. They promised plugin compatibility to sell units but didn't deliver on it, they put a lot of resources into developing new plugins and hardware units without solving the plugin compatibility fully, some people didn't care about plugins and wanted free model adds instead, all this hype and marketing campaigns about TINA but not actually using it, etc.

There's a change management principle called "Sayo Ratio" that's important - how often do you actually do the things you say? You build trust by following through consistently on what you promise, but it only takes 1-2 broken promises to lose all credibility. NDSP has very likely broken a lot of trust with a lot of people which is why you see so much criticism.

I mean, look at what Kemper is going through now. They announced profiling 2.0 and released new products at the beginning of last summer, promised a release by the end of summer, missed all deadlines with minimal updates, and then started banning customers from their user forum for calling them out on it.

Now that doesn't mean every QC thread needs to devolve into a PCOM discussion, but it's something that will follow them around like a bad stink until it gets fully resolved.

Honestly... taking that as read .... it really isn't a terrible update history. Compare it to some of the competition.... might be a shock....

Can you re-run the history while including new amp/effect blocks? I believe there was minimal updates through most of 2024-25. They had a lot of solid updates in 2022-23 from what I recall but barely did anything until their November 2025 update.

 

[GearAng3l]

all this hype and marketing campaigns about TINA but not actually using it, etc.

Wait... It isn't in use??

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

I mean, look at what Kemper is going through now. They announced profiling 2.0 and released new products at the beginning of last summer, promised a release by the end of summer, missed all deadlines with minimal updates, and then started banning customers from their user forum for calling them out on it.

This has been the case with the vast majority of "major updates" to the Kemper. I guess this one is somewhat different because they launched new hardware (that I don't think is needed for the new profiling? I dunno; confused) at the same time they announced "new stuff coming -- much farther down the road than we are currently predicting, I'm sure".

 

[Lysander]

Wait... It isn't in use??

Who knows TINA was announced with fanfare 18 months ago, promising way faster, smarter (sic) and accurate amp models than ever before.



I think the QC got two new amp models since.

 

[dean701]

Not centering on NDSP specifically as I think others including L6 have recently pulled this stunt. Releasing products with advertised features and then not having them at launch is frustrating.
The modeler market seems to be an anomaly with respect to this.
I understand they want sales and be first to market before money is spent elsewhere.

Thinking out loud, it's one thing to say that the Helix had a terrific 10 year run of advancement through the years with added features, but in 2015, they didn't release an unfinished product to my knowledge.


Like I said, it's frustrating. I won't put my money down on an unfinished product any more for the simple reason that what if the features suck when they do come to fruition. or never develop.
It would be much easier to make a purchase decision when products are released with the advertised features then sitting in a holding pattern.

The money I had saved for a Stadium ended up going into an EVH relic because it wasn't done, but now with QCM, i may flip that.

 

[Lysander]

Not centering on NDSP specifically as I think others including L6 have recently pulled this stunt. Releasing products with advertised features and then not having them at launch is frustrating.

In Line 6's defense though, the only times i've seen them promising upcoming features they come with a date attached. Their normal MO is underpromise & overdeliver.

Fractal is also a company you can set your watch to their announcements.

 

[LP59]

Not centering on NDSP specifically as I think others including L6 have recently pulled this stunt. Releasing products with advertised features and then not having them at launch is frustrating.

I'll ask the same question Orvillain asked about the QC. What did Line6 promise to include in the initial release that they failed to deliver? They were very open about deferring Showcase and Proxy until after the initial release. The Stadium had some bugs in the initial version, but IMHO that doesn't take it to the level of "releasing an unfinished product".

 

[dean701]

I'll ask the same question Orvillain asked about the QC. What did Line6 promise to include in the initial release that they failed to deliver? They were very open about deferring Showcase and Proxy until after the initial release. The Stadium had some bugs in the initial version, but IMHO that doesn't take it to the level of "releasing an unfinished product".

I think it does. Eric was very forthcoming and publicly admitted that certain features weren't ready for launch as anticipated.
Hey I just bought a vacuum, the vendor told me the motor for it should be ready in about 2 months.

All of this talk would subside, at least from me, if they just shipped with what was advertised. I know these vendors are generally holding true to their word and additional features always come later.

 

[LP59]

I think it does. Eric was very forthcoming and publicly admitted that certain features weren't ready for launch as anticipated.
Hey I just bought a vacuum, the vendor told me the motor for it should be ready in about 2 months.

I'm sorry, I don't understand. What features are you saying were promised for the initial version that were not included? I'm only aware of the reverse: they said the editor would not be included in the initial version, but it was included.

 

[Jarick]

Wait... It isn't in use??

TINA was announced in summer 2024 as a way to automate data capture for amp modeling (NOT for producing static captures) which they explicitly said was to catch up to the competition in creating new amp models.

Here's the breakdown of releases specific to amp models since late 2023:

• 2.1.0 (August 2023) - five new amp models (Victory Kraken, Matchless DC30, Matchless Chieftain)
• 3.1.0 (September 2024) - one new amp model (Deluxe Reverb alternate model)
• 3.3.0 (November 2025) - one new amp model (Dumble ODS)

I don't think NDSP is a bad company at all, I like their products. But if everyone else is pushing forward at a strong pace and you're not, you're going to be left behind. And new hardware is really cool, but it doesn't push the software forward.