Achilles
Rock Star
- Messages
- 3,258
NDSP Quad Cortex
- Thread starter Jarick
- Start date
Mongillo19
Rock Star
- Messages
- 4,278
I feel like this amp will cost more than $4000 given it's in limited batches.
People be crazy
- Messages
- 4,086
And then we have to contend with my trust issues. (E.g. all of those $900 ENGL Blackmore’s allegedly sitting in some guitar store in France.)
came the rain
Groupie
- Messages
- 86
- Messages
- 995
Thought you sold it off like 4 months ago
Jynx
Roadie
- Messages
- 274
2dor
Roadie
- Messages
- 368
So, fiddling around with my amps, Suhr Reactive Load and Quad Cortex, I used some lessons learned from the past year of profiling stuff with NAM and tried to apply it to Neural Capture.
I profiled my Molecular 50W which was a pain in the a$$ to do while I had the QC about 1.5 years ago.
But, instead of routing the amp into the Suhr Reactive Load directly, I had the Behringer GI-100 box in between the tube amp and the Suhr Reactive Load.
My previous testing showed the output of the Suhr was doing some funny stuff so decided to bypass it and just use the "load" portion of the Suhr and the I/O of the Behringer GI-100 going into the QC.
The results seem to be surprisingly closer than I remember being able to get a while back when I decided to ditch the QC.
I want to shoot some captures using some real mics & my Mesa 412 OS Straight (same year like Justin York's) and my Mesa 2x12 Rectifier and see how those behave.
I profiled my Molecular 50W which was a pain in the a$$ to do while I had the QC about 1.5 years ago.
But, instead of routing the amp into the Suhr Reactive Load directly, I had the Behringer GI-100 box in between the tube amp and the Suhr Reactive Load.
My previous testing showed the output of the Suhr was doing some funny stuff so decided to bypass it and just use the "load" portion of the Suhr and the I/O of the Behringer GI-100 going into the QC.
The results seem to be surprisingly closer than I remember being able to get a while back when I decided to ditch the QC.
I want to shoot some captures using some real mics & my Mesa 412 OS Straight (same year like Justin York's) and my Mesa 2x12 Rectifier and see how those behave.
Last edited:
2dor
Roadie
- Messages
- 368
Found this article (https://www.analog.com/en/lp/001/customer-success-stories-quad-cortex.html) while looking stuff up on Neural Capture; kinda hints at the process not necessarily being deep learning 100%?
Wonder if they're matching the "capture" first to some sort of canned model (like others suspect the Kemper does) and then trains a neural network from that point, much like training NAM models from "checkpoints".
Wonder if they're matching the "capture" first to some sort of canned model (like others suspect the Kemper does) and then trains a neural network from that point, much like training NAM models from "checkpoints".
Elric
Roadie
- Messages
- 573
@mbenigni is covered because @GuitarJon is making QC captures for it.Someone is selling theirs in a FB group for $3k if your pockets are feeling deep
Sounds like they run 4k new? I'm sure it's an awesome amp but that's a chunk of change
Mongillo19
Rock Star
- Messages
- 4,278
Yeah and while absolutely an efficient method of getting super expensive amp tones. I'm not going to pretend captures are as good as the real thing.
I'm also not going to pretend any amp is worth $4000
came the rain
Groupie
- Messages
- 86
$4000 is the new $2200.I'm also not going to pretend any amp is worth $4000
Mongillo19
Rock Star
- Messages
- 4,278
Idk, things are obviously more expensive but you can get some amp staples for sub $2000 (used or new)
5153 (under 2k used and new depending on wattage)
Dual Rec (under 2k used)
Mark Series IV and V (around 2k and sub 2k respectively used)
Orange Rockerverb (sub 2k used)
Just off the top of my head! But I'm not trying to downplay how much prices have gone up
came the rain
Groupie
- Messages
- 86
Marshall JVM410H is currently another great value.
Probably never been a better time for great quality gear at the lower price points, however the expensive new stuff is more expensive than ever.
GTR37
Shredder
- Messages
- 2,242
Mongillo19
Rock Star
- Messages
- 4,278
Nah we don't imo. However some things like internal loads imo are super cool.
But I've yet to play a boutique amp that I've liked more than a Marshall, mesa, Peavey etc
Totally basic guitar tones? Sounds like a pretty tall order to me. Could maybe be possible with the next generation of devices.
2dor
Roadie
- Messages
- 368
I'm probably preaching to the choir with some of this but maybe a few folks find it helpful if they're into "Neural Capture" and aren't getting good enough results.
May not work for all use-cases but found some of these definitely helped in mine.
Tip #1:
Before starting the Neural Capture, ensure the input impedance on the instrument is set to what your amp has.
Most amps have a 1Mohm input so getting IN 1 and IN2 to 1M will help (I know if you goin into IN2 with an XLR cable, it makes no difference as the input flips to another value for MIC signals)
Tip #2:
After the "Neural Capture" guide / connection diagram screens, you end up at the point where you can start the Neural Capture process and/or adjust levels.
Do NOT boost the "IN 1 LEVEL" - just leave it as is. Don't go for peaking at -6dB or any other value - leave it as is.
Bump the IN2 (coming from the Mic or Loadbox) if you need it / the capture to be louder.
Tip #3:
Unless you have a good quality USB cable with ferrite choke between your PC and Quad Cortex (ex: https://www.thomann.de/gb/udg_ultimate_usb_2.0_cable_s2bl.htm), remove the USB cable from the Quad Cortex to the PC.
I was getting some annoying interference / noise that messed my captures & found out by accidentally disconnecting the USB cable while at the Neural Capture screen.
It's a good idea to have the bare minimum of cables connected to the QC for the Neural Capture process; I'd leave everything else disconnected aside from the stuff you're told to hook up during the "Connection Diagram" screen.
Tip #4:
For folks using the vanilla (non-IR) Suhr Reactive Load, don't use the XLR-out on the Suhr to go into the Quad Cortex.
The Suhr RL has a high output impedance (probably too high for the QC's XLR input to work well with the non-IR Suhr Reactive Load XLR's output).
Use an unbalanced cable if you're shooting "direct" / loadbox-only (no cabinet) profiles of your amp if you must (pick a good quality cable like the Sommer LLX stuff).
What I found out last year shooting NAM profiles is that the output transformer on the Suhr hypes the highs and has a sharp attenuation from about 100Hz downward (too sharp for my liking). It does the same thing even if you use the THRU port with a real cab hooked
up.
I got a Behringer GI-100 DI box (very cheap) and connected it between my tube amps and the Suhr Reactive Load for silently shooting direct captures.
The Behringer GI-100 can also go between the amp and a real cab, it'll apply the impedance curve of the real cab to the capture but the "reamping" phase will not be silent
(ie. you'll hear the alien sounds coming out of the cab 
)
Tip #5: DISREGARD not needed (seems to only affect the output volume!)
This one's important for consistency of captures & that they play well on other folks' QC units if they use them.
After the Neural Capture finishes and you're at the "Cortex" / "Reference" page, apply a 5.5 dB boost to the level / gain of the capture right before you hit "Save" and put a name on it.
The Quad Cortex' "Capture Out" port used to pump the training signal / sequence into the amp is rated at 9.5 dBu (confirmed by NDSP support);
The QC IN1 is rated at 15 dBu (also confirmed by NDSP) when plugged in with an unbalanced cable and set to 1Mohm.
Saving the capture this way will help it behave as close as possible to your gear; in essence you're not applying any boosts before the capture process starts but are somewhat calibrating / making up for the delta between the maximum gain of the QC's input and "capture out" ports to help the capture fidelity.
Tip #6:
If noise is still present when you have stuff hooked up, try putting an iso-box like the Palmer PLI-01 or the Palmer PLI-05 between the QC's "Capture Out" port and the tube amp's input (or pedal etc - depending on what you're trying to profile).
I had some pretty aggressive settings on my Ceriatone King Kong 100W where the profiles didn't turn out as the amp and throwing the PLI-05 in between the QC Capture Out and the Input jack of the Ceriatone helped get good captures.
Sorry for the wall of text but since I got another Quad Cortex recently, Neural Capture was on my mind and wanted to try and apply some lessons learned from the time I sold the first one & moved to exclusively using NAM (neural amp modeler) to profile my gear and present day.
All in all, I like the way the Neural Captures turn out; even the "direct ones" that are shot using a loadbox.
May not work for all use-cases but found some of these definitely helped in mine.
Tip #1:
Before starting the Neural Capture, ensure the input impedance on the instrument is set to what your amp has.
Most amps have a 1Mohm input so getting IN 1 and IN2 to 1M will help (I know if you goin into IN2 with an XLR cable, it makes no difference as the input flips to another value for MIC signals)
Tip #2:
After the "Neural Capture" guide / connection diagram screens, you end up at the point where you can start the Neural Capture process and/or adjust levels.
Do NOT boost the "IN 1 LEVEL" - just leave it as is. Don't go for peaking at -6dB or any other value - leave it as is.
Bump the IN2 (coming from the Mic or Loadbox) if you need it / the capture to be louder.
Tip #3:
Unless you have a good quality USB cable with ferrite choke between your PC and Quad Cortex (ex: https://www.thomann.de/gb/udg_ultimate_usb_2.0_cable_s2bl.htm), remove the USB cable from the Quad Cortex to the PC.
I was getting some annoying interference / noise that messed my captures & found out by accidentally disconnecting the USB cable while at the Neural Capture screen.
It's a good idea to have the bare minimum of cables connected to the QC for the Neural Capture process; I'd leave everything else disconnected aside from the stuff you're told to hook up during the "Connection Diagram" screen.
Tip #4:
For folks using the vanilla (non-IR) Suhr Reactive Load, don't use the XLR-out on the Suhr to go into the Quad Cortex.
The Suhr RL has a high output impedance (probably too high for the QC's XLR input to work well with the non-IR Suhr Reactive Load XLR's output).
Use an unbalanced cable if you're shooting "direct" / loadbox-only (no cabinet) profiles of your amp if you must (pick a good quality cable like the Sommer LLX stuff).
What I found out last year shooting NAM profiles is that the output transformer on the Suhr hypes the highs and has a sharp attenuation from about 100Hz downward (too sharp for my liking). It does the same thing even if you use the THRU port with a real cab hooked
up.
I got a Behringer GI-100 DI box (very cheap) and connected it between my tube amps and the Suhr Reactive Load for silently shooting direct captures.
The Behringer GI-100 can also go between the amp and a real cab, it'll apply the impedance curve of the real cab to the capture but the "reamping" phase will not be silent
(ie. you'll hear the alien sounds coming out of the cab )Tip #5: DISREGARD not needed (seems to only affect the output volume!)
After the Neural Capture finishes and you're at the "Cortex" / "Reference" page, apply a 5.5 dB boost to the level / gain of the capture right before you hit "Save" and put a name on it.
The Quad Cortex' "Capture Out" port used to pump the training signal / sequence into the amp is rated at 9.5 dBu (confirmed by NDSP support);
The QC IN1 is rated at 15 dBu (also confirmed by NDSP) when plugged in with an unbalanced cable and set to 1Mohm.
Saving the capture this way will help it behave as close as possible to your gear; in essence you're not applying any boosts before the capture process starts but are somewhat calibrating / making up for the delta between the maximum gain of the QC's input and "capture out" ports to help the capture fidelity.
Tip #6:
If noise is still present when you have stuff hooked up, try putting an iso-box like the Palmer PLI-01 or the Palmer PLI-05 between the QC's "Capture Out" port and the tube amp's input (or pedal etc - depending on what you're trying to profile).
I had some pretty aggressive settings on my Ceriatone King Kong 100W where the profiles didn't turn out as the amp and throwing the PLI-05 in between the QC Capture Out and the Input jack of the Ceriatone helped get good captures.
Sorry for the wall of text but since I got another Quad Cortex recently, Neural Capture was on my mind and wanted to try and apply some lessons learned from the time I sold the first one & moved to exclusively using NAM (neural amp modeler) to profile my gear and present day.
All in all, I like the way the Neural Captures turn out; even the "direct ones" that are shot using a loadbox.
Last edited:
Jarick
Rock Star
- Messages
- 2,506
I'm probably preaching to the choir with some of this but maybe a few folks find it helpful if they're into "Neural Capture" and aren't getting good enough results.
May not work for all use-cases but found some of these definitely helped in mine.
Tip #1:
Before starting the Neural Capture, ensure the input impedance on the instrument is set to what your amp has.
Most amps have a 1Mohm input so getting IN 1 and IN2 to 1M will help (I know if you goin into IN2 with an XLR cable, it makes no difference as the input flips to another value for MIC signals)
Tip #2:
After the "Neural Capture" guide / connection diagram screens, you end up at the point where you can start the Neural Capture process and/or adjust levels.
Do NOT boost the "IN 1 LEVEL" - just leave it as is. Don't go for peaking at -6dB or any other value - leave it as is.
Bump the IN2 (coming from the Mic or Loadbox) if you need it / the capture to be louder.
Tip #3:
Unless you have a good quality USB cable with ferrite choke between your PC and Quad Cortex (ex: https://www.thomann.de/gb/udg_ultimate_usb_2.0_cable_s2bl.htm), remove the USB cable from the Quad Cortex to the PC.
I was getting some annoying interference / noise that messed my captures & found out by accidentally disconnecting the USB cable while at the Neural Capture screen.
It's a good idea to have the bare minimum of cables connected to the QC for the Neural Capture process; I'd leave everything else disconnected aside from the stuff you're told to hook up during the "Connection Diagram" screen.
Tip #4:
For folks using the vanilla (non-IR) Suhr Reactive Load, don't use the XLR-out on the Suhr to go into the Quad Cortex.
The Suhr RL has a high output impedance (probably too high for the QC's XLR input to work well with the non-IR Suhr Reactive Load XLR's output).
Use an unbalanced cable if you're shooting "direct" / loadbox-only (no cabinet) profiles of your amp if you must (pick a good quality cable like the Sommer LLX stuff).
What I found out last year shooting NAM profiles is that the output transformer on the Suhr hypes the highs and has a sharp attenuation from about 100Hz downward (too sharp for my liking). It does the same thing even if you use the THRU port with a real cab hooked
up.
I got a Behringer GI-100 DI box (very cheap) and connected it between my tube amps and the Suhr Reactive Load for silently shooting direct captures.
The Behringer GI-100 can also go between the amp and a real cab, it'll apply the impedance curve of the real cab to the capture but the "reamping" phase will not be silent
Tip #5:
This one's important for consistency of captures & that they play well on other folks' QC units if they use them.
After the Neural Capture finishes and you're at the "Cortex" / "Reference" page, apply a 5.5 dB boost to the level / gain of the capture right before you hit "Save" and put a name on it.
The Quad Cortex' "Capture Out" port used to pump the training signal / sequence into the amp is rated at 9.5 dBu (confirmed by NDSP support);
The QC IN1 is rated at 15 dBu (also confirmed by NDSP) when plugged in with an unbalanced cable and set to 1Mohm.
Saving the capture this way will help it behave as close as possible to your gear; in essence you're not applying any boosts before the capture process starts but are somewhat calibrating / making up for the delta between the maximum gain of the QC's input and "capture out" ports to help the capture fidelity.
Tip #6:
If noise is still present when you have stuff hooked up, try putting an iso-box like the Palmer PLI-01 or the Palmer PLI-05 between the QC's "Capture Out" port and the tube amp's input (or pedal etc - depending on what you're trying to profile).
I had some pretty aggressive settings on my Ceriatone King Kong 100W where the profiles didn't turn out as the amp and throwing the PLI-05 in between the QC Capture Out and the Input jack of the Ceriatone helped get good captures.
Sorry for the wall of text but since I got another Quad Cortex recently, Neural Capture was on my mind and wanted to try and apply some lessons learned from the time I sold the first one & moved to exclusively using NAM (neural amp modeler) to profile my gear and present day.
All in all, I like the way the Neural Captures turn out; even the "direct ones" that are shot using a loadbox.
Thank you! I will try that later. I have not been happy with the captures of my IRX without impulses. Gain is too low. I’ll give that a shot!
2dor
Roadie
- Messages
- 368
Need to make an edit to Tip #5: it's not required as it only seems to affect the output level of the output not what's hitting the profile.
The most important bit for consistency is to leave levels at 0 during the "setup phase" right before starting the capture.
Apologies if it was misleading.
The most important bit for consistency is to leave levels at 0 during the "setup phase" right before starting the capture.
Apologies if it was misleading.
