My next modeller

[AFKAEjay(retired)]

It’s old and IMO it shows its age a lot.

Sure they have the longest running platform…but imo, between profile/capture devices, they have cranked more functionality into a 3 switch small device then anything out there.

I am aware of the null tests out there, but I profile my own amps on both QC and Kemper, and while kemper has an occasional missfire in that process, the end results sound equally good to my ears.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

they have cranked more functionality into a 3 switch small device then anything out there.

Yeah, I never really found myself using the FX and pedals in there except for very rare circumstances. It’s flexible if you are happy with the sounds, though.

I profile my own amps on both QC and Kemper, and while kemper has an occasional missfire in that process, the end results sound equally good to my ears.

At best you won’t hear much difference with a Kemper profile, it depends on the amp being captured, method of capturing and how it’s dialled in. Compared to NAM, a Kemper will never produce a more accurate model. A NAM model will be more accurate and true to the source 100% of the time - it’s one of the few times it’s easy to make a conclusive statement on this stuff.

If the OP is looking for the best captures, Kemper is not it. IMO once you get used to the underlying kemper sounds it’s hard to unhear, everything feels similar with brute force match EQ over the top. Impressive in its day, can still do a job now, but far from the best.

 

[AFKAEjay(retired)]

A NAM model will be more accurate and true to the source 100% of the time - it’s one of the few times it’s easy to make a conclusive statement on this stuff.

I won’t dispute that null measurements show a higher accuracy with NAM.
The million dollar question is…does higher accuracy add value? To me, cause I can’t hear those differences, it doesn’t.

to me, if a profile sounds and feels like the original, that’s a “check the box” in that department, and I continue making a decision based on other properties.

 

[2dor]

I won’t dispute that null measurements show a higher accuracy with NAM.
The million dollar question is…does higher accuracy add value? To me, cause I can’t hear those differences, it doesn’t.

to me, if a profile sounds and feels like the original, that’s a “check the box” in that department, and I continue making a decision based on other properties.

That's the thing - I have some amps which, when dialed in the way I like playing them, stuff like the Quad Cortex and ToneX can't match those settings; it's really the same thing as you describe only that certain amp-and-dials combinations will give these units a harder time at profiling. In this case, I'm obviously going to choose the one that's going to be the most faithful representation of the gear I love.
That's the answer to the million dollar question. If they'd all be able to do a decent enough job, then yeah - it's all about choosing what vendor & additional features you most fancy.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

The million dollar question is…does higher accuracy add value? To me, cause I can’t hear those differences, it doesn’t.

This depends so much on everything outside of the modeller being used though. Stuff that will influence whether or not that criteria is met:

- The amp being used (does the Kemper capture it well, or does it struggle)
- The type of capture being made (Kemper sometimes has difficulty with DI captures, particularly with a lot of power amp saturation)
- The amount of gain used (Peavey XXX, JSX, Krank Revolution etc all had issues for me when using a lot of gain)
- The monitoring. On some speakers the nuances may not be perceptible or important. In another environment, those shortfalls can become noticeable.
- Our own ears. Sometimes in the moment I felt like it was close enough, and then I've come back a day later with fresh ears and things stick out. Usually it sounds fine but often the differences are discernible.

NAM (and anything of comparable accuracy) will always be more accurate than Kemper regardless of any of the above, those circumstances aren't a factor when comparing the two like for like.

And I'm not just saying that it nulls closer, it also sounds better, feels more lifelike, and is more enjoyable to play. I'm not saying the Kemper is useless, it just simply isn't the best capturing platform in 2025. However well Kemper captures something, other platforms will do it better.

 

[AFKAEjay(retired)]

That's the thing - I have some amps which, when dialed in the way I like playing them, stuff like the Quad Cortex and ToneX can't match those settings; it's really the same thing as you describe only that certain amp-and-dials combinations will give these units a harder time at profiling. In this case, I'm obviously going to choose the one that's going to be the most faithful representation of the gear I love.
That's the answer to the million dollar question. If they'd all be able to do a decent enough job, then yeah - it's all about choosing what vendor & additional features you most fancy.

Offcourse…if your observation is that a platform doesn’t profile your stuff…it’s easy.
From my personal perspective, both QC and Kemper did a good job on everything I threw at them. That doesn’t include high gain stuff btw

 

[BenIfin]

..... A NAM model will be more accurate and true to the source 100% of the time - it’s one of the few times it’s easy to make a conclusive statement on this stuff.

For a Capture that remains static at all times ^this^ is %1000 true.

My point was/is once you start tweaking the Capture / Profile via the "static-baked-in" G/B/M/T controls, the static capture on a Tonex or NAM or a static KPA Profile all go to sh%t very quickly *especially* once you start changing the "gain" control.

I ran a KPA Stage with only D.I Liquid Profiles and my IR of choice for about 8 months live - always *only* used Liquid Profiles that had a matching KPA Tone Stack .... it was a joy to tweak all the Amp controls .... it reacted and sounded very "amp-like" at all G/B/M/T settings.

With Tonex, NAM and a non-Tone-Stack-Matched KPA Profiles however .... tweaking the Amp controls beyond their Captured default is just sh%tfull.

As I said, the only "down-side" to KPA Liquid Profiles is you must use one of the existing ~40 or so KPA Tone Stacks ... but in fairness they do cover most user scenario's in most cases.

At the moment however - I have a live setup based around 5 or 6 NAM Amalagam Captures, my IR, an IPad running Gigfast Lite in AUM through an IRig Pro Duo Audio-Midi interface and an MC6 MKII Midi FSW - it sounds stunning.

BUT in this rig, all my gain and eq'ing - where necessary - is done with dedicated EQ and Gain/Drive Blocks before and after the NAM Block so I keep the NAM Capture at its Captured default settings at all times so its Integrity remains %100 in-tact.

Good luck with whatever you choose :)

 

[AFKAEjay(retired)]

And I'm not just saying that it nulls closer, it also sounds better, feels more lifelike, and is more enjoyable to play.

Obviously I can’t rule out exceptions like the scenarios you posted, but the above as “generic” for Kemper doesnt match my experiences.
I mean..if you can’t tell the difference between real and capture..there is no “better” right?

And sure, there are reports from reliable sources on Kemper not being able to profile certain amps/configurations, no debate there.
Just haven’t run into that myself, and no clue to which degree other platforms also choke on (other) specific setups. Could be that they have a higher succesrate..idnk.

 

[BenIfin]

..... it also sounds better, feels more lifelike, and is more enjoyable to play.

Obviously this is your subjective opinion and that's totally cool. I disagree - as do I suspect many others .... and not to mention the thousands of pro / semi-pro touring bands that have been using the KPA live [almost] since the day it came out through to today

Obviously I can’t rule out exceptions like the scenarios you posted, but the above as “generic” for Kemper doesnt match my experiences.
I mean..if you can’t tell the difference between real and capture..there is no “better” right?

And sure, there are reports from reliable sources on Kemper not being able to profile certain amps/configurations, no debate there.
Just haven’t run into that myself, and no clue to which degree other platforms also choke on (other) specific setups. Could be that they have a higher succesrate..idnk.

Agree - see my comment in this post to MP's comment above

Its all good !

 

[2dor]

Obviously I can’t rule out exceptions like the scenarios you posted, but the above as “generic” for Kemper doesnt match my experiences.
I mean..if you can’t tell the difference between real and capture..there is no “better” right?

And sure, there are reports from reliable sources on Kemper not being able to profile certain amps/configurations, no debate there.
Just haven’t run into that myself, and no clue to which degree other platforms also choke on (other) specific setups. Could be that they have a higher succesrate..idnk.

In general, what I've observed having been toying with profiling for about ~2-3 years, is that the more high-end content / gain the source gear has, the harder it becomes for the profiler to replicate the source. That holds true for NAM as well: really bright, saturated settings give it a harder time.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Obviously I can’t rule out exceptions like the scenarios you posted, but the above as “generic” for Kemper doesnt match my experiences.
I mean..if you can’t tell the difference between real and capture..there is no “better” right?

The main question regarding all that IMO is what you're shooting at. Round these parts, accuracy often is of prime importance and very obviously it's not a bad idea to go for it in in case the source is sounding a) every bit as you love it and/or b) in case it's something, say, "unusual". Add to this that accuracy can be measured easily.
But once you don't need 100% accuracy anymore or are happy with the sort of amps the Kemper is still capturing nicely, I think that other things quickly become vastly more important, such as additional functionality and easy/quick access to all that. For me, the latter two trump pretty much everything else once the core sound is in the ballpark.
Yeah, that's not exactly the cork-sniffing way - but I'm even happy about that.

 

[2dor]

For me, the latter two trump pretty much everything else once the core sound is in the ballpark.
Yeah, that's not exactly the cork-sniffing way - but I'm even happy about that.

I agree very much with this. I think everybody has their own threshold for what "good enough" is. Once that's reached, the deal breaker is going to be ease of use & feature-set.

 

[AFKAEjay(retired)]

The main question regarding all that IMO is what you're shooting at. Round these parts, accuracy often is of prime importance and very obviously it's not a bad idea to go for it in in case the source is sounding a) every bit as you love it and/or b) in case it's something, say, "unusual". Add to this that accuracy can be measured easily.
But once you don't need 100% accuracy anymore or are happy with the sort of amps the Kemper is still capturing nicely, I think that other things quickly become vastly more important, such as additional functionality and easy/quick access to all that. For me, the latter two trump pretty much everything else once the core sound is in the ballpark.
Yeah, that's not exactly the cork-sniffing way - but I'm even happy about that.

If you don’t profile yourself, one could even argue it’s not relevant at all..only “Is my sound in there”.

…but…I do think accuracy plays a hand in “trust” in a device.
If I see numerous vids where device X doesn’t capture well…doesn’t stimulate to buy that particular one.
And for me personally, considering my “use in the digital world what you own in the analog” approach..if I didn’t trust my gear to be accurate enough to capture it…I’d look into something else.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

if you can’t tell the difference between real and capture..there is no “better” right?

If you can't tell, then you would have to measure or compare another way to determine a better. I've made hundreds of Kemper profiles over the years, significantly more than I have for any other platform. Often it's fine, sometimes it matches really close and sometimes no matter what it can't get anywhere near. Say if I capture 10 amps, 2 might match really close, 2 will be miles off without doing some trickery, and the remaining 6 will be reasonably close but with the Kemper's character stamped on it.

If you want the best quality of captures, the Kemper is not it. Just as a Headrest or Ampere isn't it. If the quality of the captures is not the most important attribute, perhaps the compromise is worth it. For a lot of people that is the case and the Kemper is fine.

 

[AFKAEjay(retired)]

If you can't tell, then you would have to measure or compare another way to determine a better.

Maybe we have different perspectives here…I just want sound X in box Y…when I hear it…I’m done, check the box, move on.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Maybe we have different perspectives here…I just want sound X in box Y…when I hear it…I’m done, check the box, move on.

The main issue I had with the kemper is you could try models of 20 different amps, and they all basically feel like the exact same amp with a different match EQ filter applied. So while it may feel like you’re hearing what a Splawn feels like compared to a Wizard, compared to a Metropolous compared to a Friedman, it all ends up feeling like a Kemper. They all iterate down to the underlying Kemper amp sounds rather than their own distinct character.

I’m not disputing that it’s good enough for many (this is just personal preference, and I was a happy kemper user for many years), but other options simply do it better now.

It’s like saying “my 1080i HD TV looks good enough to me, and for what I watch, I don’t see the point in an 8K TV”. No one would dispute that it might be good enough, and similarly, no one would dispute that an 8K TV can have a more accurate picture.

 

[AFKAEjay(retired)]

The main issue I had with the kemper is you could try models of 20 different amps, and they all basically feel like the exact same amp with a different match EQ filter applied. So while it may feel like you’re hearing what a Splawn feels like compared to a Wizard, compared to a Metropolous compared to a Friedman, it all ends up feeling like a Kemper. They all iterate down to the underlying Kemper amp sounds rather than their own distinct character.

I’m not disputing that it’s good enough for many (this is just personal preference, and I was a happy kemper user for many years), but other options simply do it better now.

It’s like saying “my 1080i HD TV looks good enough to me, and for what I watch, I don’t see the point in an 8K TV”. No one would dispute that it might be good enough, and similarly, no one would dispute that an 8K TV can have a more accurate picture.

I can only repeat myself…my observation is that I can’t tell real from profile for the ones I made…and that’s what I wanted from it.

 

[Sascha Franck]

If you don’t profile yourself, one could even argue it’s not relevant at all..only “Is my sound in there”.

That is 100% where I'm at.
Ok, admittedly, for live usage, I would like to profile a handful of things such as my absolute favourite pedal platform patch of the Amplifirebox, my old Laney LC50's clean channel (which is as well excellent for pedal usage) or some software amp creations (combinations of drives, EQs and amps) to consolidate them (and have live access), but none of it is actually really bothering me much, if at all. I can get everything I need live out of what I already have. And then some. There's still so many very decent sounding variations in my current rig(s) that I haven't even explored at all yet.

I can only repeat myself…my observation is that I can’t tell real from profile for the ones I made…and that’s what I wanted from it.

And that's really all that is important on a personal level. The rest is academic stuff (or important because it's in fact getting into someones way). Which is absolutely fine, too. After all, it's folks dissecting things academically to push things forward, and I'm defenitely very grateful for them to do all that work.

 

[sliberty]

Yeah, I never really found myself using the FX and pedals in there except for very rare circumstances. It’s flexible if you are happy with the sounds, though.


At best you won’t hear much difference with a Kemper profile, it depends on the amp being captured, method of capturing and how it’s dialled in. Compared to NAM, a Kemper will never produce a more accurate model. A NAM model will be more accurate and true to the source 100% of the time - it’s one of the few times it’s easy to make a conclusive statement on this stuff.

If the OP is looking for the best captures, Kemper is not it. IMO once you get used to the underlying kemper sounds it’s hard to unhear, everything feels similar with brute force match EQ over the top. Impressive in its day, can still do a job now, but far from the best.

OP here :)

I am really not looking for the "best" captures. I am looking for the best balance of tones, features and support. I want a device whose amps and effects sound great (accuracy is a myth anyway - a modeler can only be accurate when compared to a particular example - the one profiled, but all examples are a little different), has a great feature set (strong MIDI, parameter control via MIDI, scenes/snapshots, excellent editor - preferably mobile and desktop), and a company that understands that improvements/enhancements/bug fixes are as important as the initial feature set, and provides updates several times per year to keep the platform viable for years to come.

I've given up on the idea that I will find a ToneX capture of a HiWatt Custom 100 from the early 70's that actually sounds like mine. My HiWatt (now in my son's hands) was a clean punchy monster that could feedback musically while still clean. All the way on 10, it was still only edge of breakup, and only with humbuckers or P90's. But I have "evolved" to where I am searching for tones that make me happy instead. I've been getting some great clean punchy tones from a JTM45 model in my Stomp, and I've let go of the attitude that if it isn't called a HiWatt, its not good enough.

My opinions on what I've tried so far:

Line 6, for me, is the king of modelers. Great amp sounds, great effects, great features and great company support. They lack capture tech (which I really want to adopt).

ToneX as great amp captures available, and plenty of them. Their effects are very good, although too limited to be an all in one for my taste (except as a backup device). And the ToneX One lacks normal MIDI. I am playing with Greg Smith's solution to the MIDI problem, and it seems very promising. But even with that, the app is garbage. I am looking forward to see how the new "editor" turns out. If they hit a home run, ToneX might be my capture device, but that still remains to be seen.

The Hotone Ampero II Stomp amp tones are good, but the effects are not all so good (some are fine, others really suck). And the MIDI support is a joke. And moreover, their update cycle is also a joke. And when they do release an update, it is insignificant (except for when they added scenes - which should have been there from the beginning).

I have not played a Cortex device (neither one), nor a Kemper (not that interested really).

NAM may be the future direction for a lot of manufacturers. It's sort of like Linux - it may take a while, but it will catch fire eventually. But I haven't seen the hardware from a significant enough company to make me want one just yet.

I hope that helps give you a better idea of what I am looking for.

With that in mind, I'd really like to hear more from Nano Cortex users.

 

[Jarick]

IMO

If I were using commercial profiles, I'd go Kemper Player. It's very mature with tons of really good profiles available. Not as sonically transparent but you can tweak the profiles to taste. It's had a long track record of success. Downside is you have to pay for upgrades to get all the effects but if you're using HX Stomp for effects probably not a big deal.

Nano Cortex I haven't used but I have a Quad Cortex. I would only get one if you want to capture your own amps, not for commercial. NDSP doesn't have a good marketplace so a lot of commercial profilers haven't gotten involved yet. Also development is pretty slow so you may get ToneX software improvements before the Nano hits a level of maturity.

If you're looking for an all in one unit with effects, I'd definitely steer towards the Kemper Player and away from the Nano because the Nano is super limited here. Kemper you have to pay for upgrades but at least it's full featured. But you may be better off jumping up to the bigger devices if you want all in one. Don't sleep on Quad Cortex here, again you don't have commercial profiles but you can run several captures in one preset, so you could do stereo amps PLUS several drive pedal captures.