Listening tips for non-shred guitar soloing

[TSJMajesty]

If Portnoy’s played on it, I’ve heard it.

Still don’t like Marillion. Or Translantic, for the same reasons I don’t like Marillion, or Yes, or Spock’s Beard or really any prog that doesn’t have any metal in it. Rush is as close as I get to that stuff.

You remind me of a few guys I've been in bands with. Some common likes; some not.

Not exclusively of course, but Ward was heavy into what I'll call the "indie" side of music, Rob loved 80's new wave, Billy was a huge Zep-head, Mark was such a huge Rush fan his list of songs only had Rush songs on it, and I was into a lot of Prog and 90's alt, and the harder 80's rock bands.

So we'd kind of draw these proverbial circles with all of our musical-likes in them, to see where they overlapped, and we'd generally, but not always, focus our song selections starting there.

And of course, we'd turn each other onto all sorts of other music in the process!

 

[TSJMajesty]

Since they came up, how about Pain of Salvation? Definitely metal with hints of prog.

I've heard that before, since one time I was talking to a store clerk about my love of Dream Theater, and she said, "You should check out Pain of Salvation."

 

[DrewJD82]

You remind me of a few guys I've been in bands with. Some common likes; some not.

Not exclusively of course, but Ward was heavy into what I'll call the "indie" side of music, Rob loved 80's new wave, Billy was a huge Zep-head, Mark was such a huge Rush fan his list of songs only had Rush songs on it, and I was into a lot of Prog and 90's alt, and the harder 80's rock bands.

So we'd kind of draw these proverbial circles with all of our musical-likes in them, to see where they overlapped, and we'd generally, but not always, focus our song selections starting there.

And of course, we'd turn each other onto all sorts of other music in the process!

Yeah, I’m aware of the jagged edges in my listening tastes. It barely makes sense that I can love Floyd, Rush and EJ’s music, but can’t get into lighter prog music. Or I can listen to EDM but too much keyboards in rock music ruin it for me.

There’s pretty much something in every genre I have a love for, but things get pretty picky after that.

 

[TSJMajesty]

It barely makes sense

Doesn't have to. We like what we like.

I love the last few albums the Beatles did, and old Motown.
And freaking Dream Theater and Alice in Chains.
And Tommy Emmanuel and Junior Brown.
Pink Floyd, Muse, and Porcupine Tree.
And the Nutcracker Ballet music!

 

[la szum]

You remind me of a few guys I've been in bands with. Some common likes; some not.

Not exclusively of course, but Ward was heavy into what I'll call the "indie" side of music, Rob loved 80's new wave, Billy was a huge Zep-head, Mark was such a huge Rush fan his list of songs only had Rush songs on it, and I was into a lot of Prog and 90's alt, and the harder 80's rock bands.

So we'd kind of draw these proverbial circles with all of our musical-likes in them, to see where they overlapped, and we'd generally, but not always, focus our song selections starting there.

And of course, we'd turn each other onto all sorts of other music in the process!

This is my/our current struggle in the band with 2 new guys. It's funny/disturbing watching
us get all excited, and then we start talking music and picking out songs and it's like, "Whoa, Nelly!
Stop the train!!""

Drummer is like Five Finger Death Punch. Bassist is like low-key singer-wongwriter stuff in an
Americana vein. Singer is like give me all the Power Ballads.

Keith and I are like, WTF is happening.

Bands are hard. Even when you like one another. Compromise is inevitable to some degree.... unless
everyone has an equal hand in writing original material. But even then you all get to bitch about the
Mix and who had what Solo and fuck me why do we do any of this anyways?

 

[TSJMajesty]

This is my/our current struggle in the band with 2 new guys. It's funny/disturbing watching
us get all excited, and then we start talking music and picking out songs and it's like, "Whoa, Nelly!
Stop the train!!""

Drummer is like Five Finger Death Punch. Bassist is like low-key singer-wongwriter stuff in an
Americana vein. Singer is like give me all the Power Ballads.

Keith and I are like, WTF is happening.

Bands are hard. Even when you like one another. Compromise is inevitable to some degree.... unless
everyone has an equal hand in writing original material. But even then you all get to bitch about the
Mix and who had what Solo and fuck me why do we do any of this anyways?

My idea of the "overlapping circles" was surprisingly (for once!) agreed upon by all of us. It worked well in our trio, but in a 5-piece, it was harder to find the common ground.

But that's me in a nutshell: I try to find solutions to disagreements that can be agreed upon. This was a rare case in a band, where it did work.

And in a trio, you never have to fight with another guitarist over who gets to do the cool trill in Barracuda!!

(Which we did ague over. Ahh, youth.)

 

[la szum]

I don't think Heart is the answer here.


I do miss playing in bands with female singers, though. Done it a few times and it
always brings a dimension that is not there any other way.

 

[TSJMajesty]

I don't think Heart is the answer here.


I do miss playing in bands with female singers, though. Done it a few times and it
always brings a dimension that is not there any other way.

I'll take "Things that bring predictable results" for $2000 Alex.

 

[DrewJD82]

I don't think Heart is the answer here.


I do miss playing in bands with female singers, though. Done it a few times and it
always brings a dimension that is not there any other way.

I dunno, hearing Ann Wilson sing seems like it could be the answer to any question.

 

[Sascha Franck]

@woody, as your opening post pretty much indicates that you're not exactly into shredding, why don't you just try to roll your own?
I mean, without those technical hurdles immanent to shredding, you should perhaps be able to find your "own voice" (sorry for that romanticising blurb) a lot easier.
Start with whatever chord progression at whatever tempo and see how far you can go. Post the results here for tips.

 

[woody]

@woody, as your opening post pretty much indicates that you're not exactly into shredding, why don't you just try to roll your own?
I mean, without those technical hurdles immanent to shredding, you should perhaps be able to find your "own voice" (sorry for that romanticising blurb) a lot easier.
Start with whatever chord progression at whatever tempo and see how far you can go. Post the results here for tips.

"Imitate, integrate, innovate" is the much easier path then "make it all up yourself out of thin air".
Listening helps me define the "target area", of where I want to go, and allows for a greater focus while practicing. Defining a few parameters cuts down on the aimless noodling.
Also, I really find it easier to roll my own if I immerse myself in "ballpark music".
In the end, I will inevitably sound like myself, anyway...

 

[woody]

For the Gilmour or the James Taylor?

 

[Sascha Franck]

"Imitate, integrate, innovate" is the much easier path then "make it all up yourself out of thin air".

Personally, I wouldn't agree on that. Yes, I am obviously listening to music that I like, but I never even remotely tried to imitate anything. In my guitar "career" I have only played like a handful of transcriptions when I was forced to doing so because the university classes demanded it. And of course, on some corporate gigs there's always one or the other pattern you need to cover (regardless whether it's "Sex Machine", "Good Times" or "Highway to Hell"), but others than that, while I defenitely took quite some inspiration here and there, I never copied a single lick or pattern for using it on anything of my own.

 

[dronerstone]

Hands down my favorite guitar solo. No shredding involved, just lots of sweet toanz. Turn it up, sit back and let it seep in.:



Also, Lanegan on vocals always kills.

 

[FuzzyAce]

My idea of the "overlapping circles" was surprisingly (for once!) agreed upon by all of us. It worked well in our trio, but in a 5-piece, it was harder to find the common ground.

But that's me in a nutshell: I try to find solutions to disagreements that can be agreed upon. This was a rare case in a band, where it did work.

And in a trio, you never have to fight with another guitarist over who gets to do the cool trill in Barracuda!!

(Which we did ague over. Ahh, youth.)

That whole album is great. I've listened to it many, many times.

 

[woody]

Personally, I wouldn't agree on that. Yes, I am obviously listening to music that I like, but I never even remotely tried to imitate anything. In my guitar "career" I have only played like a handful of transcriptions when I was forced to doing so because the university classes demanded it. And of course, on some corporate gigs there's always one or the other pattern you need to cover (regardless whether it's "Sex Machine", "Good Times" or "Highway to Hell"), but others than that, while I defenitely took quite some inspiration here and there, I never copied a single lick or pattern for using it on anything of my own.

“If you don’t know where you are going any road can take you there.” say the Cheshire cat.
So I want to be conscious about which road to take.
Transcribing allows me to try out musical ideas and get a clear taste for how they sound and how they feel.
I can then shape my lines to reflect that taste.
But everyone has a different approach, I guess.

 

[FuzzyAce]

“If you don’t know where you are going any road can take you there.” say the Cheshire cat.
So I want to be conscious about which road to take.
Transcribing allows me to try out musical ideas and get a clear taste for how they sound and how they feel.
I can then shape my lines to reflect that taste.
But everyone has a different approach, I guess.

There's no wrong way, just do what works for you. (damn, I'm sounding like @Stone now)

My 'approach' always seemed to be through osmosis -- just listening and soaking it all in and whatever came out on my end was it, for better or worse.
I was never much into playing to backing tracks (that weren't mine) or learning parts note for note. Maybe in my early years that was more a thing when looking at tab books.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Transcribing allows me to try out musical ideas and get a clear taste for how they sound and how they feel.

If it works for you, fine. Really.
And as I'm certainly not the person to redefine either guitarbased songwriting or guitar artistry at all, who would I be to tell you anything different?
Yet, if you transcribe, which ideas are you exactly trying out? I mean, they are tried out already. Sure, you can still copy them and maybe that's a whole lot of fun and inspiring. But in case the final goal is to come up with your own stuff, I would certainly not spend too much time with other's material. Learn the basics and try to get into the flow of whatever it might be. At least that's how I'm looking at things. But as said, I'm not a relevant part of the guitar/composing universe, so it might as well be nonsense.

 

[Sascha Franck]

just listening and soaking it all in and whatever came out on my end was it, for better or worse.

That's the way I was doing things, too. I played along with stuff a whole lot (there were no ready-to-roll backings or affordable DAW solutions when I started) but it was really just sort of "along the lines". I never thought I had to copy a pattern or a lick literally (that only happened later when I had to do it).

 

[dronerstone]

If it works for you, fine. Really.
And as I'm certainly not the person to redefine either guitarbased songwriting or guitar artistry at all, who would I be to tell you anything different?
Yet, if you transcribe, which ideas are you exactly trying out? I mean, they are tried out already. Sure, you can still copy them and maybe that's a whole lot of fun and inspiring. But in case the final goal is to come up with your own stuff, I would certainly not spend too much time with other's material. Learn the basics and try to get into the flow of whatever it might be. At least that's how I'm looking at things. But as said, I'm not a relevant part of the guitar/composing universe, so it might as well be nonsense.

I fully agree.