Is it ethical for one pro guitar player to exactly copy the style of a successful pro guitar player?

T

Trollbait

Roadie
Messages
140
I heard a youtube demo today where the pro guitar player sounded, both in melodic composition and solo phrasing, exactly like Allen Holdsworth. Allen's no longer with us and his style was so unique to him that it just didn't seem right to hear this clone. Doesn't that pro have his own style?

I've also heard other pro's on youtube successfully imitate Pat Metheny's style of playing.
 
Does he openly admit he's copying/imitating it?

If so, bad.

I went to school with a guy that everyone said sounded exactly like me. Same sounding voice, basically. We all have doppelgangers, whether it be looks, voice, etc... it just happens, we can't all be snowflakes, lol
 
I’ll tell you a story. It’s a legend among my musical peers in Canada. Redacted some things because it’s not 100% certified. Maybe 90%…

I went to high school with this guy who ate, drank and breathed blues guitar. Guy was AMAZING. He was a few years ahead of me. But just an unreal blues player.

His living idol was <redacted>.

He worked hard. Got a band together. And a year or so out of high school he landed his dream gig: opening for his idol on a cross country tour.

Here’s the thing. He’d spent literal years idolizing the guy and studying how he played. They got out on tour and he’d spend the better part of every night side stage soaking in his idol playing live 5m from him.

And the next night, whether intentional or not, he’d proceed to open for his idol and copy his licks from the night before.

They made it four dates and idol was so pissed at him he booted them from the tour.

Go your own way.
 
What about the thousands of other clones of others guitarists?

It doesn’t matter how great of a clone they are, they’re never going to have the legacy of the people they’re cloning. And specifically in this case, anyone seeking out that kind of guitar playing is going to come across Holdsworth before any clone of his and in the rare case they don’t, surely the comments or related videos will point them right to Holdsworth.

If it’s fulfilling for the guitarist doing the cloning, have at it. No one is going to get hurt because someone was inspired by a guitar player. If anything, hopefully they start writing their own music and find that covering old ground isn’t quite as fulfilling which leads them to taking what they cloned and pushing it into different directions.
 
DrewJD82 said:
which leads them to taking what they cloned and pushing it into different directions.
Click to expand...
For sure everyone has their influences to learn from. It just seemed like sacrilege hearing someone putting out Holdsworth's style on youtube. The clone dude most likely can copy anyone's style and worked as a studio musician for a lot of years. Here's a quote from Methany on the subject.

"the whole idea of developing a personal sound and conception of music has been really important to me right from the beginning. when i think of all my favorite musicians, the thing that they all seem to have in common, in fact, maybe the only identifiable characteristic that they share at all, is that they are all true individuals- there’s only one of them, they’re all originals. when we think of miles davis, wes montgomery, bill evans, freddie hubbard, keith jarrett, charlie haden, ornette coleman, stevie wonder, paul bley, milton nascimento, milt jackson, roy haynes and so many others; within an instant of the mention of their names, we can “hear” their sound in our heads. but for me, as a young musician growing up, even though this abstract idea of having ones own sound was a beautiful ideal, the hard core reality of working towards that goal has been, and continues to be, a life long process, one that has required an enormous amount of thought, work, and consideration."


Pat Metheny : Question & Answer

www.patmetheny.com www.patmetheny.com
 
1705369448617.png
 
Some players just go so deep down a rabbit hole that it’s nearly impossible to get out of without some kind of drastic reinvention process. We all have our influences but I’d rather sound like myself… for better or worse.
 
Holdsworth a bit of an extreme example. Since his style was so original and unique it's impossible to play some of his lines and not have guitarists recognize it right off. Add bits of it here and there and it's cool. Do it 100% of the time and it's a total ripoff - plus most do it badly anyway. This guy's the best imo.

 
Last edited:
I dont know. I idolize an awful lot of players. I couldn’t imagine putting in the time to sound exactly like someone else. Far too much work and in the end, where did it get you? Playing guitar is a fools pleasure to begin with. We aren’t curing cancer here. to further pigeon hole yourself into being a guitar doppelgänger? I do not see the point but for those doing this, I dont have to. They do. Theres that guy running around YouTube who made it his life’s mission to sound like George Lynch. He sure does sound just like him. Those lick library guys are really close to the styles they’re teaching too. I guess you can do that kind of stuff. Go for it.
 
In more recent years I’ve really been laying into the ‘play to your strengths’ aspect of things, which at 41 is much different than it was at 21. I spent so many years trying to sing like my biggest vocal influences that some of those inflections are engrained in me and it’ll take another 20 years to steer myself away from them. While I’m always going to push myself harder to do more, I also don’t want to just stop writing/recording because I’m currently ‘stuck’ wearing those influences on my sleeves.

And there’s also a part of me that simply doesn’t want to change that. I’ve had periods of frustration in other bands because I’m such a massive Layne Staley fan that almost everything I sing has a Layne vibe, which has frustrated others but for me, he’s my biggest vocal influence and if I can snag just a teeny tiny bit of the badassness of that dude, I’m a happy boy.
 
We all have influences that come out in our playing, but when it turns into a straight-up imitation it just becomes goofy IMHO. I don't know that it rises to the level of unethical, because who are they really fooling (other than themselves)?
 
I'm on the "steal this or that, from this or that player, and mix it with my own stuff" train. I definitely copy some of the licks of say, Schon, EVH, and Lifeson, to name the main ones, but those are not note for note, because I'm not even playing songs from those bands, and it's more of a passing thing during a solo, a tap on the fretboard here or there, a fast flurry of notes there, etc.

80% of any solo I play, is me.
 
Trollbait said:
I heard a youtube demo today where the pro guitar player sounded, both in melodic composition and solo phrasing, exactly like Allen Holdsworth. Allen's no longer with us and his style was so unique to him that it just didn't seem right to hear this clone. Doesn't that pro have his own style?

I've also heard other pro's on youtube successfully imitate Pat Metheny's style of playing.
Click to expand...
Who is being harmed by this? Especially the Holdsworth example?
 
Boudoir Guitar said:
Who is being harmed by this? Especially the Holdsworth example?
Click to expand...
I would say the one being harmed is the individual doing the copy. Reason being, they are suppressing their own artistic output to mimic that of someone else! Exception is, if they are trying to sell their stuff as the individual they are copying, then of course the one being harmed is the original artist.
 
Moondog Wily said:
I would say the one being harmed is the individual doing the copy. Reason being, they are suppressing their own artistic output to mimic that of someone else! Exception is, if they are trying to sell their stuff as the individual they are copying, then of course the one being harmed is the original artist.
Click to expand...

I spent my entire weekend in my studio working on original music….songs I’ve worked on for far longer than I should, but ya know what I was most excited about this weekend? Ripping off Layne Staley in Whizzin’s song. :rofl
 
Moondog Wily said:
I would say the one being harmed is the individual doing the copy. Reason being, they are suppressing their own artistic output to mimic that of someone else! Exception is, if they are trying to sell their stuff as the individual they are copying, then of course the one being harmed is the original artist.
Click to expand...
All those kids at New England Conservatory learning how to play the same classical stuff, just harming themselves every day when they wake up to head into the practice room.......

I'm happy Pat Metheny had the goal he had. Other people are more than free to have their own goals and/or ideas about what is a worthwhile to spend their time on the planet.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top