Line 6 Helix Stadium

[timbuck3]

I find this post interesting on fractal forum… and logical

baron55​

Member​

• Today at 8:53 AM
• 
  
• #246

to me Line6 has all the ressources to perform the best in the next gen. With Proxy and NAM support (apparently Steve is working with them to see how TZ3 could be implemented inside the Helix Cloud) they will be able to crush IKM ToneX, Neural DSP and Kemper. They are everywhere in stores around the world, so if you unit just fail you can get one on tour pretty quickly and easily, and the USB/memory card will allow to clone your device so it will be very convenient (like kemper with usb stick)
They have the best engineers, and a solid base of customers.
I’m sure they will be pretty hard to beat.
That said for the modeling world, white box mode, now I found AFXIII amp models to be the best in my own experience even if I prefer black boxes NAM and ToneX overall (found the feel better)
But if Helix Stadium offers a native plugin to complete the ecosystem and a iOS app, then I’ll switch 100% on stadium.
I had a lot of fun with helix native and ToneX plugins. Sometime you want to be 100% RME+macbook and guitar and not dealing with big rack and pedals at home or studio.

I will probably wait FAS announcements about next gen product and then choose between AXF4 / Stadium / ToneX Pro / Kemper mk2.
Click to expand...

Line 6 is owned by Yamaha which is a publicly held company. Publicly held companies spend minimum and try to maximize profits. They will not spend the money to make a great product. Instead, they will spend the minimum amount and try to market it to the masses.

Look at the Helix, they milked that dry with all those silly variations. Helix, HX FX, Helix Light, FX stomp, FX Stop XL, Helix One.

A good indication of quality modeling is to take a preamp model into the real power amp of that amp. It should sound the same when the controls are set like the real amp. Fractal was the first modeler that I ever found this to be true. Line 6 not even close. I have many of the real amps that Fractal models. And they are dead

 

[norminal]

Look at the Helix, they milked that dry with all those silly variations. Helix, HX FX, Helix Light, FX stomp, FX Stop XL, Helix One.

I wouldn’t consider the variations “silly.” Those are all different products within the line for different use cases. And “milked the line dry?” What were they expecting? A new revision for every firmware update?

 

[Chocol8]

“I’d prefer that they were available at launch.“

How many more years would you prefer to wait, and for everyone else to have to wait, for launch so that everything could be included at launch?

 

[laxu]

I find this post interesting on fractal forum… and logical

baron55​

Member​

• Today at 8:53 AM
• 
  
• #246

to me Line6 has all the ressources to perform the best in the next gen. With Proxy and NAM support (apparently Steve is working with them to see how TZ3 could be implemented inside the Helix Cloud) they will be able to crush IKM ToneX, Neural DSP and Kemper. They are everywhere in stores around the world, so if you unit just fail you can get one on tour pretty quickly and easily, and the USB/memory card will allow to clone your device so it will be very convenient (like kemper with usb stick)
They have the best engineers, and a solid base of customers.
I’m sure they will be pretty hard to beat.
That said for the modeling world, white box mode, now I found AFXIII amp models to be the best in my own experience even if I prefer black boxes NAM and ToneX overall (found the feel better)
But if Helix Stadium offers a native plugin to complete the ecosystem and a iOS app, then I’ll switch 100% on stadium.
I had a lot of fun with helix native and ToneX plugins. Sometime you want to be 100% RME+macbook and guitar and not dealing with big rack and pedals at home or studio.

I will probably wait FAS announcements about next gen product and then choose between AXF4 / Stadium / ToneX Pro / Kemper mk2.

I can agree with all that.

Line 6 is owned by Yamaha which is a publicly held company. Publicly held companies spend minimum and try to maximize profits. They will not spend the money to make a great product. Instead, they will spend the minimum amount and try to market it to the masses.

Look at the Helix, they milked that dry with all those silly variations. Helix, HX FX, Helix Light, FX stomp, FX Stop XL, Helix One.

This on the other hand is complete nonsense. Companies, whether public or not, have all kinds of motivations for making products. You can't get too far if your product sucks and isn't the only game in town.

The Helix/HX variants all serve a different user on the market.

A good indication of quality modeling is to take a preamp model into the real power amp of that amp. It should sound the same when the controls are set like the real amp. Fractal was the first modeler that I ever found this to be true. Line 6 not even close. I have many of the real amps that Fractal models. And they are dead

Preamp modeling is only one part of the puzzle and this has been done well for years by multiple companies.

 

[Chocol8]

Line 6 is owned by Yamaha which is a publicly held company. Publicly held companies spend minimum and try to maximize profits. They will not spend the money to make a great product. Instead, they will spend the minimum amount and try to market it to the masses.

That is COMPLETE nonsense!!!!! I work with plenty of businesses that put a LOT of money into developing the best products they can because they believe in the long run it will make them money. Some of them are spending billions of dollars, a few I have worked with in just the last few years are spending 10's of billions of dollars.

There are a LOT of companies that DO NOT want to compete on price selling the cheapest commodity crap to the masses. They feel like the profits are lower at the low end and Chinese cloners are going to win at that anyway, so they want to create premium products for those willing to pay more for quality.

If you think all businesses are trying to make a profit by selling the cheapest junk to the masses, perhaps it is the businesses you have been supporting, and a look in the mirror is in order.

 

[timbuck3]

I can agree with all that.


This on the other hand is complete nonsense. Companies, whether public or not, have all kinds of motivations for making products. You can't get too far if your product sucks and isn't the only game in town.

The Helix/HX variants all serve a different user on the market.


Preamp modeling is only one part of the puzzle and this has been done well for years by multiple companies.

I just said I thought it was interesting. Just one guy’s opinion. I mean honestly who really knows anyways it’s all conjecture.

 

[KingsXJJ]

How many more years would you prefer to wait, and for everyone else to have to wait, for launch so that everything could be included at launch?

I’d prefer they were available at launch. This launch. Maybe if I say it in multiple languages, such a complex statement would be easier to grasp. Perhaps backwards would work for this crowd. Yoda style: “Available I wish they were. While at launch we are.”

 

[Mikael Dez]

I find this post interesting on fractal forum… and logical

baron55​

Member​

• Today at 8:53 AM
• 
  
• #246

Line 6 is owned by Yamaha which is a publicly held company. Publicly held companies spend minimum and try to maximize profits. They will not spend the money to make a great product. Instead, they will spend the minimum amount and try to market it to the masses.

Look at the Helix, they milked that dry with all those silly variations. Helix, HX FX, Helix Light, FX stomp, FX Stop XL, Helix One.

A good indication of quality modeling is to take a preamp model into the real power amp of that amp. It should sound the same when the controls are set like the real amp. Fractal was the first modeler that I ever found this to be true. Line 6 not even close. I have many of the real amps that Fractal models. And they are dead

Yamaha makes great shit, idk what you’re on lol from motorbikes to acoustic guitars - it’s all excellent.

 

[KingsXJJ]

That is COMPLETE nonsense!!!!! I work with plenty of businesses that put a LOT of money into developing the best products they can because they believe in the long run it will make them money. Some of them are spending billions of dollars, a few I have worked with in just the last few years are spending 10's of billions of dollars.

There are a LOT of companies that DO NOT want to compete on price selling the cheapest commodity crap to the masses. They feel like the profits are lower at the low end and Chinese cloners are going to win at that anyway, so they want to create premium products for those willing to pay more for quality.

If you think all businesses are trying to make a profit by selling the cheapest junk to the masses, perhaps it is the businesses you have been supporting, and a look in the mirror is in order.

Yes, exactly. Hotone is like this. They invest in their product development to bring compelling products to market and don’t just compete on price.

I agree 100% that some companies do this.

 

[TheTrueZoltan!]

These two „flagship“ devices of the new product family are really tailored for live performances, and have a lot to offer for these circumstances. However, I wonder what products Line 6 is cooking for the bedroom / home studio musician. A compact desktop device, a plugin version, or something completely different nobody is expecting… I‘m ready for it!

 

[EOengineer]

A good indication of quality modeling is to take a preamp model into the real power amp of that amp. It should sound the same when the controls are set like the real amp. Fractal was the first modeler that I ever found this to be true. Line 6 not even close.

I use the Helix 2203 preamp through my 2204 fx return all the time, it’s spot on to the amp on its own. Similarly I use the Mesa Mark IV preamp through a Mesa 2:90 Poweramp and it sounds right in line with my real Mark series amps.

I haven’t tried every preamp through every power amp, but the ones I’ve tried all closely resemble the physical amps I own.

 

[mikah912]

Cover? Sure. Hold up against my better reverbs (Ventris and fractal)? Absolutely not. The difference bugged me enough to run a Ventris in the loop, but that’s a pain I’d rather stay in the box.

With FM9 I can happily stay in the box. Would like to see Stadium get to that point. Time will tell…

D

I'm not going to front like FM9 doesn't have a deeper, exquisite lineup of reverbs. It does and it's the unparalleled leader amongst every modeling and profiling platform. I don't even think Line 6 would disagree.

That being said, I can't think of a - key word here - need in terms of reverb that Helix's current lineup can't answer. Really boingy spring? Check. Subtle vintage-y spring? Yup. Stadium rock plates? You betcha. Rooms are good too.

The ones specifically for ambient like Plateaux and Searchlights? Definitely don't compare as well, but the Dynamic reverbs with the decay turned way up do get beautiful and lush and fare much better. Really love running the newer delays in parallel too.

 

[Dom Mcsweeney]

Oh my favourite: a new Jean / Francois?

 

[KingsXJJ]

These two „flagship“ devices of the new product family are really tailored for live performances, and have a lot to offer for these circumstances. However, I wonder what products Line 6 is cooking for the bedroom / home studio musician. A compact desktop device, a plugin version, or something completely different nobody is expecting… I‘m ready for it!

Me too. Especially a cheaper desktop version.

 

[EOengineer]

These two „flagship“ devices of the new product family are really tailored for live performances, and have a lot to offer for these circumstances. However, I wonder what products Line 6 is cooking for the bedroom / home studio musician. A compact desktop device, a plugin version, or something completely different nobody is expecting… I‘m ready for it!

I’d love a Rack version of the XL, and yeah maybe something like a desktop version could be useful, especially with the touchscreen now.

 

[timbuck3]

I wonder if this was that original touchscreen that digital igloo mentioned that they wanted to put on the original helix course it’s more advanced but the original concept I wonder if it’s taken from there?
Also, as I said, I remember him saying something about not using helix name for the next flagship so I’m wondering if this stadium is like the final helix and after the stadium release of course they’re working on new stuff but they will be working on a flagship with a different name that will of course use agora Software so if that happens or comes along the original helix will get obviously sunset. The stadium will stay as the lower end or as the new flagship whatever it’s called it won’t be helix, but it’ll be next GEN or more involved in that way using agora. It will be compatible with the stadium say years from now. I’m thinking in the future though because obviously line 6 made the helix it’s been 10 years or more I’m not sure but what I spoke about a second ago my timeframe could be in the future from now of course like 10 years or eight years or five years from now, but they’re setting the platform with this helix stadium, keeping the helix name so that when they discontinue the regular helix the stadium will take its place as being the lower tiered unit after the next incarnation comes out

 

[ian_dissonance]

These two „flagship“ devices of the new product family are really tailored for live performances, and have a lot to offer for these circumstances. However, I wonder what products Line 6 is cooking for the bedroom / home studio musician. A compact desktop device, a plugin version, or something completely different nobody is expecting… I‘m ready for it!

Depending on what you can all accomplish with the I/O and routing via nexus, a rack version of this could hypothetically replace 3-4 other pieces of gear for live performance.

 

[Mikael Dez]

I wonder if this was that original touchscreen that digital igloo mentioned that they wanted to put on the original helix course it’s more advanced but the original concept I wonder if it’s taken from there?
Also, as I said, I remember him saying something about not using helix name for the next flagship so I’m wondering if this stadium is like the final helix and after the stadium release of course they’re working on new stuff but they will be working on a flagship with a different name that will of course use agora Software so if that happens or comes along the original helix will get obviously sunset. The stadium will stay as the lower end or as the new flagship whatever it’s called it won’t be helix, but it’ll be next GEN or more involved in that way using agora. It will be compatible with the stadium say years from now. I’m thinking in the future though because obviously line 6 made the helix it’s been 10 years or more I’m not sure but what I spoke about a second ago my timeframe could be in the future from now of course like 10 years or eight years or five years from now, but they’re setting the platform with this helix stadium, keeping the helix name so that when they discontinue the regular helix the stadium will take its place as being the lower tiered unit after the next incarnation comes out

 

[ian_dissonance]

I wonder if this was that original touchscreen that digital igloo mentioned that they wanted to put on the original helix course it’s more advanced but the original concept I wonder if it’s taken from there?
Also, as I said, I remember him saying something about not using helix name for the next flagship so I’m wondering if this stadium is like the final helix and after the stadium release of course they’re working on new stuff but they will be working on a flagship with a different name that will of course use agora Software so if that happens or comes along the original helix will get obviously sunset. The stadium will stay as the lower end or as the new flagship whatever it’s called it won’t be helix, but it’ll be next GEN or more involved in that way using agora. It will be compatible with the stadium say years from now. I’m thinking in the future though because obviously line 6 made the helix it’s been 10 years or more I’m not sure but what I spoke about a second ago my timeframe could be in the future from now of course like 10 years or eight years or five years from now, but they’re setting the platform with this helix stadium, keeping the helix name so that when they discontinue the regular helix the stadium will take its place as being the lower tiered unit after the next incarnation comes out

All he ever said was it wouldn’t be called “Helix 2”.

 

[Lysander]

I’d love to see a price drop on the nano-cortex due to all the recent stuff going on.

Didn't NDSP price drop the QC right after Fender's TMP release? It's not unheard of.