Line 6 Helix Stadium

[ispunk]

The last 16 pages remind me of the launch of the QC.

Except that Line 6 will deliver on the stuff they promise in a timely manner

 

[DLC86]

I mean, it's true? From how it was described, Agoura is component-based modeling a-la-Fractal instead of the bulding blocks approach of the original Helix. Like everything else in life, it's a matter of compromises: sure, Fractal models are waaaaaay more complex, but they also require a dedicated DSP chip to function.

I don't think anyone ever claimed anything about "complexity", but i do have a Fractal product, and i can tell you both platforms have models which sound/feel better than the other, albeit marginally so. Fractal does trounce the competition on sheer number of amps and original FXs, which are stellar.

I meant that the way Eric says that makes it seem like they're the first company doing that stuff.

Regarding those claims, I recall them pretty clearly cuz that happened after I stated there (iirc and more or less) that if the helix can run 4 amps + effects on the same DSP as the ax8 that can run only 1 amp, there must be something different either in the complexity of the algorithms and/or in the quality they run, there's no free lunch.
And they bashed me saying that was just cuz line 6 was better at optimizing the algorithms than Fractal.

Regarding how they compare in sound, I have my opinion but that's subjective of course... I usually prefer Fractal by a long margin, on the amps I usually use at least. Looking forward to hear what this new modeling sounds like.

 

[timbuck3]

You're probably not going to see too many flagship modelers dip far below that for the foreseeable future. Everything was more expensive BEFORE our current global trade landscape issues.

Remember the hd500 was $500 and the helix became the new 1500 benchmark… now it’s up to 2k$ like the Amp x territory

 

[mbenigni]

If there’s a Wireless editor where an iPad can basically duplicate functionality with no latency the Stadium could be both…

Well, I need one unit tethered semi-permanently to my desk (and about 100 other pieces of gear), whereas the "mobile" unit has to be elsewhere by definition. So they're not going to be the same device. The only question is whether they'll be the same kind of device.

 

[timbuck3]

Assuming this sounds at least as good as Fractal (which I believe L6 are plenty capable of), I dont really see how anyone can do better than this as a complete product. QC and TMP can probably update their GUI to something similar, I think Kemper and the Fractal units need almost a total ground up redesign to do anything similar.

Can’t wait for a tiny desktop unit with controller and plugin version (with expandable digital I/O adapter). Would make for a killer controller, real time DSP device and DI input/reamp box. Seems entirely possible to do with that platform.

I’m

Assuming this sounds at least as good as Fractal (which I believe L6 are plenty capable of), I dont really see how anyone can do better than this as a complete product. QC and TMP can probably update their GUI to something similar, I think Kemper and the Fractal units need almost a total ground up redesign to do anything similar.

Can’t wait for a tiny desktop unit with controller and plugin version (with expandable digital I/O adapter). Would make for a killer controller, real time DSP device and DI input/reamp box. Seems entirely possible to do with that platform.

Well, I guess touchscreens are the way of the future so fractal better climb on board

 

[mbenigni]

Remember the hd500 was $500 and the helix became the new 1500 benchmark… now it’s up to 2k$ like the Amp x territory

HD500 is an apple vs. an orange by this point. To make no mention of simple inflation? What was that, like 15 or 20 years ago now?

 

[[Nathan]]

I feel like it's 10 years ago and I'm on TOP obsessing over the Helix announcement!

Life is short, we buy the stadium

 

[MirrorProfiles]

All if you like captures. I prefer modeling for the way the controls work when modeled correctly.

I think we're going to keep having both. NAM will find its way to devices where the manufacturers think it may provide an advantage. But manufacturers are not going to stop competing on sounds.

I’m not saying it’ll be one or the other. Both the modelling and capturing are reaching singularity now - the next gen of modellers will all sound so indistinguishable to the amps they’re modelling that you won’t pick a brand based on “their JCM800 feels more alive, man”.

I’m not implying either is superior or will replace the other. Just that whatever L6 offers for both approaches will sound great and when comparing modellers it’ll be the other features and usability that distinguishes them.

 

[Dom Mcsweeney]

In this case, unfortunately true, I agree.

It's not unfortunate, it's just better (that a company focuses on more than one thing or else you'd only have the amps on a Helix One).
In the same way they are also hopefully focussing on other features such as bettering their reverbs etc.
100% of dev time needs to go to where it is needed, not just 'this component in this amp is right, and is easily controllable'.

People wanting modelling of other kinds, like black box modelling, also deserve the very best.
People will enjoy it, just like they enjoy using IRs.

 

[timbuck3]

Are you serious lol? Ya, they’ll probably drop a new one next year and bin this one.

I just remember digital igloo saying the next unit was not gonna be called helix but he also said it wasn’t gonna be released this year

 

[ChordInversion]

Not really. It will become a more universal standard just like IR’s are now. Not putting a player in for it is dumb if it’s possible. They can still have their own tech to go alongside with it.

Not dumb. Just a choice. Resources are finite. If your customers demand it, then sure, it makes sense to add it. If they like modeling, stick with modeling.

 

[Orvillain]

Hmmm, could have sworn I saw in that Kemper MKII thread a few people claim we’re all just happy to shit on new gear if it’s not from our preferred company.

Let this thread show you that if you move the needle enough that Fractal owners are rooting for success and cheering on a new product, ya did something right. When you spin the needle in circles so your new product can’t speak for itself and only the loyalist have excitement for it, well, you reap what you sow.

Was just chatting to @MirrorProfiles on Facebook and we both idly pondered whether this would have us selling our Axe3's !

 

[ChordInversion]

BTW I'm standing by to flay anyone who previously said they didn't want a touchscreen.

I still don't want one (and I already have one on the TMP), but I'll accept one, especially because there is so much physical control, and the touch screen may not be mandatory for most things.

 

[Orvillain]

16 new engine amps. You still get the ~80 "classic" Helix amps on launch as well - and they still sound amazing.

I wouldn't need to tbh. They've got the Revv, the VH4, and some decent cleans as well. That'll do me pig!

 

[AlbertA]

Well what a coincidence, today's my birthday.

Any sound samples yet?

Looks like Fractal has their work cut out for them.

 

[Funk Soul Brother]

As I said in the Helix Talk thread, the Stadium makes the Tone Master Pro look like a Fisher-Price product by comparison. They're gonna have to either double down quickly, find a niche quickly, or pack it in.

Funny, I thort the TMP looked like a toy the whole time

Then again, in the AD/DA modeling game the target market gets hyper-stimulated by new baubles, flashing lights & over-the-top ad-speak.

 

[ChordInversion]

One more kudo to Line6 before stepping away: This is how you do a new product launch. No cheesy 'teaser' campaign. Announce the product, state the price and scheduled availability, and drop the mic. Bravo.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Didn’t DI imply that existing stuff will likely sound better running on these too?

Not sure if that means something like the existing modelling engine can oversample more or take some shackles off (or if it was purely relating to HW specs reducing noise/headroom).

Hoping one of those 16 amps is a full model of a recto. and another one is a decent Mark, with all modes and channels too. Those amps are criminally light on the HX platform and would both benefit from the latest modelling tech too.

The current 2203, EVH5150 Ecstasy, VH4, Rev, BE100, Rockerverb, Invective etc I don’t think have any real rush to update. I like the Marshalls but those would benefit from new models, partly to get the right circuits modelled as much as taking advantage of better sounding tech.

 

[LP59]

Well what a coincidence, today's my birthday.

Any sound samples yet?

Looks like Fractal has their work cut out for them.

Happy Birthday! No sound samples yet.

Unfortunately for Fractal, many of the key features here are in user experience. I can't think of anything that is farther out of Fractal's wheelhouse than that.

 

[eggpl@nt]

Didn’t DI imply that existing stuff will likely sound better running on these too?

Not sure if that means something like the existing modelling engine can oversample more or take some shackles off (or if it was purely relating to HW specs reducing noise/headroom).

Hoping one of those 16 amps is a full model of a recto. and another one is a decent Mark, with all modes and channels too. Those amps are criminally light on the HX platform and would both benefit from the latest modelling tech too.

The current 2203, EVH5150 Ecstasy, VH4, Rev, BE100, Rockerverb, Invective etc I don’t think have any real rush to update. I like the Marshalls but those would benefit from new models, partly to get the right circuits modelled as much as taking advantage of better sounding tech.

I understood that comment to be related to the improved audio performance of the I/O than to anything under the hood