Line 6 Helix Stadium

[Mikael Dez]

I hope not. But I am tired and wary of partial launches with things promised for the future.

I want a complete product that surprises me with firmware updates that deliver unexpected and surprising additions. Not filling a backlog of previous promises.

Read the firmware notes of the lowly Amp Academy for an example of how it can be done.

But they didn’t promise new effects so it’s pretty transparent - and they could have held back all those updates to the Helix and added them to the Stadium without anyone the wiser, and everyone would have applauded the new effects (that in our reality everyone has already!)

 

[Enchilada Jones]

Maybe it’s been covered here but I just read that all of the effects in the new Helix are legacy HX effects. No new gen ones at all. Nada.

That is disappointing to me. I’d love to see some really lush new reverbs pushing boundaries here. Maybe in the future, maybe not.

Seems like a missed opportunity to use the extra DSP instead of just using algos that run on legacy hardware.

I think you are missing the point raised in response to the question.
Work on new effects is always going on. They are able to put their newest efforts into the legacy units. So that’s where they have been introduced. When the Stadium arrives, the new system will run them too. So no need to be unhappy the Stadium will have the latest effort of Line 6 development onboard just as you hoped.

The only difference is you don’t get to think ‘Oh boy! I just got a shiny new multi effect unit and it has shiny new effects in it too!’
But you will get to hear the improved DSP headroom etc. So in a way there is some new shine for you.

 

[OneEng]

Fractal uses capacitive sensors so nothing to press (manual refers to them as SSS - solid state switching)

Great design. No contact with the PCB, and no mechanical electrical connection to get dirty.

Someone mentioned that sound quality was less important than usability. This is certainly highly debatable. I tend to agree, but I suspect that the majority here will crap all over the new stadium if it doesn't sound as good as the competition regardless of how many bells and whistles it has.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Someone mentioned that sound quality was less important than usability. This is certainly highly debatable. I tend to agree, but I suspect that the majority here will crap all over the new stadium if it doesn't sound as good as the competition regardless of how many bells and whistles it has

I think it’s more that sound quality should be a given, it won’t really be possible to distinguish between them, so it won’t be the deciding factor like it might have been on current gen. But yes, it has to sound at least as good as an AxeFX or NAM Hyper Accuracy or NDSP plugins or whatever comparable product you like the sound of. I don’t see why that won’t be achievable.

 

[Mikael Dez]

Me waiting til winter

 

[DrewJD82]

Be warned, it can be a terrible experience....well, FB in general is but dropping off local, not shipping, and getting money ASAP is super nice

Since it’s a QC, he can rule out the 75 year old guys who just hit you up to talk about gigging in the 70’s and how they wish they still played as much. Those guys come out when Fender amps are listed on Marketplace.

 

[Mikael Dez]

Since it’s a QC, he can rule out the 75 year old guys who just hit you up to talk about gigging in the 70’s and how they wish they still played as much. Those guys come out when Fender amps are listed on Marketplace.

One dude tried to hang out with me after I sold him my Valveking like 10 years ago. That was awkward

 

[KingsXJJ]

I don't really get this -

"I am tired and wary of partial launches with things promised for the future."

Line 6 have already spent 10 years (and way longer), so you have all the effects now.


"I want a complete product that surprises me with firmware updates that deliver unexpected and surprising additions. Not filling a backlog of previous promises."


I can't really understand this, but, I'm sure they will surprise everyone over and over in the future.

You don’t need to understand my feelings on the matter. They are honest shares and they are what they are.

Partially ready launches include Quad Cortex and TMP. I’m not singling out Line 6. I just don’t like gear that delivers some and promises more. Launch it with a full feature set. Line 6 may have had 10 years to work on the effects but that doesn’t mean they are perfect nor that they especially can’t be improved with a bunch of newly available DSP. L6 seems to realize that and say “It’s coming.” Why would anyone be confused by the wish for it to be “It’s here.”

Do you really have trouble comprehending why someone might like to see new amps and effects on a new platform? Or perhaps something else is going on.

I’m not the only one who feels like the HX reverbs and delays leave something to be desired. The same feelings have been shared by more than a few including some reputable posters. In any case if you are happy with the legacy (or brand new but deployed previously to the legacy platform) great!

I’d like the whole enchilada to be fresh, new and the best it can be. Old DSP’s being able to run it don’t exactly inspire confidence that they are. Reverbs especially.

Well, I hope that cleared up any understanding issues!

 

[KingsXJJ]

I think you are missing the point raised in response to the question.
Work on new effects is always going on. They are able to put their newest efforts into the legacy units. So that’s where they have been introduced. When the Stadium arrives, the new system will run them too. So no need to be unhappy the Stadium will have the latest effort of Line 6 development onboard just as you hoped.

The only difference is you don’t get to think ‘Oh boy! I just got a shiny new multi effect unit and it has shiny new effects in it too!’
But you will get to hear the improved DSP headroom etc. So in a way there is some new shine for you.

Thanks, I appreciate you trying to explain it to me but I think you might be missing my point. The effect development that has been ongoing is by its nature of current implementation limited to what older DSP’s can tolerate and process. I’d like to have seen ones not constrained by that released upon launch with the new platform that doesn’t have these limitations. I hope that’s clear enough.

I’m not saying HX effects aren’t currently ok. I just believe they could be better. Like it is with Agoura Amps, I’d like to see Agoura Effects.

 

[mbenigni]

Since it’s a QC, he can rule out the 75 year old guys who just hit you up to talk about gigging in the 70’s and how they wish they still played as much. Those guys come out when Fender amps are listed on Marketplace.

 

[mbenigni]

I just don’t like gear that delivers some and promises more. Launch it with a full feature set. Line 6 may have had 10 years to work on the effects but that doesn’t mean they are perfect nor that they especially can’t be improved with a bunch of newly available DSP. L6 seems to realize that and say “It’s coming.” Why would anyone be confused by the wish for it to be “It’s here.”

But you go on to say that you ALSO want subsequent firmware updates that surprise you, so unless a promise is made at the outset that isn’t met, you’re contradicting yourself. (Line 6 hasn’t made any promises regarding non-HX, Stadium-exclusive effects to my knowledge.)

 

[Dom Mcsweeney]

You don’t need to understand my feelings on the matter.

but clearly it would help everyone else understand what the hell you are talking about.

 

[mikah912]

You don’t need to understand my feelings on the matter. They are honest shares and they are what they are.

Partially ready launches include Quad Cortex and TMP. I’m not singling out Line 6. I just don’t like gear that delivers some and promises more. Launch it with a full feature set. Line 6 may have had 10 years to work on the effects but that doesn’t mean they are perfect nor that they especially can’t be improved with a bunch of newly available DSP. L6 seems to realize that and say “It’s coming.” Why would anyone be confused by the wish for it to be “It’s here.”

Do you really have trouble comprehending why someone might like to see new amps and effects on a new platform? Or perhaps something else is going on.

I’m not the only one who feels like the HX reverbs and delays leave something to be desired. The same feelings have been shared by more than a few including some reputable posters. In any case if you are happy with the legacy (or brand new but deployed previously to the legacy platform) great!

I’d like the whole enchilada to be fresh, new and the best it can be. Old DSP’s being able to run it don’t exactly inspire confidence that they are. Reverbs especially.

Well, I hope that cleared up any understanding issues!

Just like the amps, there have been at least a couple generations of HX reverbs, so I wouldn't refer to them as a monolithic whole.

The latest generation of "Dynamic" reverbs along with the redone Spring reverb are a couple of tiers above the Double Tank/Searchlights generation for me. They compare really well against Fractal, and with their timing amidst Stadium development...... they're probably Angoura in all but name. Same for the latest delays.

 

[Mongillo19]

but clearly it would help everyone else understand what the hell you are talking about.

DONT HOUND HIM

 

[AlbertA]

One dude tried to hang out with me after I sold him my Valveking like 10 years ago. That was awkward

You'll get there,

 

[Dom Mcsweeney]

DONT HOUND HIM

 

[KingsXJJ]

But you go on to say that you ALSO want subsequent firmware updates that surprise you, so unless a promise is made at the outset that isn’t met, you’re contradicting yourself. (Line 6 hasn’t made any promises regarding non-HX, Stadium-exclusive effects to my knowledge.)

No contradiction. I don’t like promises but I do like surprises.

Line 6 mentioned new effects coming. Perhaps they will be limited to HX level effects. That would be disappointing to me.

Everyone is free to feel differently! Including me.

 

[MTB1973]

One dude tried to hang out with me after I sold him my Valveking like 10 years ago. That was awkward

Sorry, man. Just wanted to hang out.

 

[Mikael Dez]

No contradiction. I don’t like promises but I do like surprises.

Line 6 mentioned new effects coming. Perhaps they will be limited to HX level effects. That would be disappointing to me.

Everyone is free to feel differently! Including me.

He said something along the lines of “IF new effects can run on the old devices, they will be added” which means it’s not relying on the old hardware, it’s “if the old hardware can hang, give it the new thing” and I think that’s an EXCELLENT business model

 

[Chocol8]

Partially ready launches include Quad Cortex and TMP. I’m not singling out Line 6. I just don’t like gear that delivers some and promises more. Launch it with a full feature set.

If all the major players in the industry follow a similar strategy that you disagree with, it should make you stop and think that maybe, just maybe, they are the ones who know what they are doing and why. If after thinking about it you conclude they are all wrong, then by all means you should jump into the market and kick their collective asses.

Launching with a full feature set is completely impractical. DI said the Stadium design requirements were set in 2017 and some of the features they want to include are still not ready and won't be until 2026. Others may take several more years to finish. They could sit on the device for another 5 years or they could let us buy it and enjoy what is already complete while we wait for the remaining development. It sure seems to me that the guitar community overwhelmingly prefers the Line 6 approach and loves firmware updates that deliver new functionality and features. They only get upset, and rightfully so, when things are promised but not delivered. Line 6, Fractal, Kemper and throw in IK, have all done a pretty good job of delivering updates they promised plus unpromised updates. A couple players don't make promises and don't offer much in the way of updates, and NDSP stands as the one major player that makes a lot of promises and fails to deliver. Let's not condemn the industry and the standard strategy because of one bad company.