Line 6 Helix Stadium

[Chocol8]

Note that Cliff is notoriously against capturing, and remains steadfast convinced modelling to be a superior approach. Other brands, though? Seems we're getting there already.

Yep, that is Cliff’s preference, not a technical limitation or a good business limitation. Personally, I think if he sticks with it, it is going to cost him sales. There have been a LOT of Fractal and Line 6 customers running their devices along with a Tonex Pedal or One over the last couple of years. I bet most of them would prefer the capture tech, for amps and/or effects, be built into their next device.

 

[laxu]

There's one more reason. Not only does Fractal have top tier modeling, they also have by far the biggest range of modeled amps. That can matter to people who have become accustomed to that range and don't want to heavily tweak one of a small range of models until it is "close enough."

That's just virtual amp collecting. If you want to do that, sure, stick with Fractal.

My experience with all that is that it's initially a lot of fun to have the wealth of options. Then over time you start finding your favorites, and everything else becomes "I'm bored and want to try something different".

 

[laxu]

Helix currently has 46 unique real amp models if you combine the different channels into one amp. It also has 15 Line6 original models. That's currently spread over 94 different amp models in total.

The numbers I've seen for Helix Stadium Agoura amp models have been I think 16 or 22? If they can do 22, that would be close to half of the Helix's real amp models.

I think that would cover a lot of ground already if you skip some of the similar amps. E.g you have a JCM800 2203 model but not 2204, 5150 but no Invective, 100W Superlead but no Park 75 or Plexi Tremolo 50 and so on.

 

[Lysander]

The numbers I've seen for Helix Stadium Agoura amp models have been I think 16 or 22? If they can do 22, that would be close to half of the Helix's real amp models.

39 Agoura amps/channels on launch, per the man himself. Some Agoura models include all channels, which you can switch using f.ex. snapshots but a few (Revvs, notably) had to be split up.

 

[2dor]

My QC's on its way to its new owner; waiting for Stadium to drop now..

 

[ian_dissonance]

That's just virtual amp collecting. If you want to do that, sure, stick with Fractal.

My experience with all that is that it's initially a lot of fun to have the wealth of options. Then over time you start finding your favorites, and everything else becomes "I'm bored and want to try something different".

Virtual amp collecting was a draw for me 25 years ago with the Boss GT-6. Now the goal for me is something with 2-3 sounds that really work and a playground of shit all in one place so it stays fluid while I’m making music. I could still see the draw if I was doing 5 decades of rock covers or something, but even then it would probably be 3-4 core tones and then special fx because why would I do that to myself and the sound guy trying to get 120 unique tones for every song.

 

[Sascha Franck]

F

That's just virtual amp collecting. If you want to do that, sure, stick with Fractal.

My experience with all that is that it's initially a lot of fun to have the wealth of options. Then over time you start finding your favorites, and everything else becomes "I'm bored and want to try something different".

From a single user POV it's certainly a collectors thing or, as you say, a "let me just fool around with this for a while".
Personally, within the HX realm, I'm now down to just two amps and hardly ever grab anything else (the Super Reverb and the Voltage).
But then there's other folks. And while they're preferences might as well come down to just 2-3 amps, it might be completely different ones.

Hence, as a modeler maker, you rather need to be a jack of all trades, so you can satisfy all potential users. As a result you just have to cover a whole lot of amps if you want people to stay on your platform.

 

[Byrdman]

Damn, I wish all future Helix Stadium products were available from day one...

Where have we heard that before

 

[dk_ace]

F


From a single user POV it's certainly a collectors thing or, as you say, a "let me just fool around with this for a while".
Personally, within the HX realm, I'm now down to just two amps and hardly ever grab anything else (the Super Reverb and the Voltage).
But then there's other folks. And while they're preferences might as well come down to just 2-3 amps, it might be completely different ones.

Hence, as a modeler maker, you rather need to be a jack of all trades, so you can satisfy all potential users. As a result you just have to cover a whole lot of amps if you want people to stay on your platform.

Damn, I didn’t do the last update and forgot that they added a super reverb! I need to do that this weekend. I think there’s gonna be a session comparing some more things in the FM9 and Helix…

D

 

[Chocol8]

I wish all Stadium products were available on day 1, with every amp, effect and feature fully baked from day 1, and I wish it only cost $1 in the US and maybe 100 Euros in Europe just because I like when they have to pay more. I also wish I had a pet unicorn whose farts smelled like flowers and chocolates and…oh god no, I don’t wish for any of that shit!

 

[HomespunEffects]

… forgot that they added a super reverb! …

That’s a good one, I really like it. Hurry up and update.

 

[molul]

Wow, 350 amp blocks... That would be stressful for me. I'm the kind of guy that doesn't like going to a burger that has more than 10 options in the menu

I get the utility of that number too. There will surely be a few amps of choice for any user.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Damn, I didn’t do the last update and forgot that they added a super reverb!

I think it's just excellent. But then, I'd get away with the Princess, too. And before they added that with the Cali IV clean channel.
Basically, I need a clean amp with plenty of headroom that isn't as sterile as a JC. Anything else is pretty much adressable with the right choice of cabs for my needs.
Yet, so far the Super Reverb is the one "speaking to me" the most, if you will.
Similar things go for the Voltage. I'd possibly get away with one of the other Marshall(-ish) offerings, but the Voltage happens to work all the time (I'm pretty much exclusively using both with either one of my two live IRs or the Mandarin 30 2x12).

 

[dk_ace]

I think it's just excellent. But then, I'd get away with the Princess, too. And before they added that with the Cali IV clean channel.
Basically, I need a clean amp with plenty of headroom that isn't as sterile as a JC. Anything else is pretty much adressable with the right choice of cabs for my needs.
Yet, so far the Super Reverb is the one "speaking to me" the most, if you will.
Similar things go for the Voltage. I'd possibly get away with one of the other Marshall(-ish) offerings, but the Voltage happens to work all the time (I'm pretty much exclusively using both with either one of my two live IRs or the Mandarin 30 2x12).

The GSG was my choice for this kind of thing, I really love that model.

I’ve always had a soft spot for SRs though…

To me, the GSG was kinda like my idealized SR.

D

 

[Byrdman]

I wish all Stadium products were available on day 1, with every amp, effect and feature fully baked from day 1, and I wish it only cost $1 in the US and maybe 100 Euros in Europe just because I like when they have to pay more. I also wish I had a pet unicorn whose farts smelled like flowers and chocolates and…oh god no, I don’t wish for any of that shit!

This isnt for everyone but you could always pick up a Boss Multi-Effects unit. Those only ship out with WYSIWYG with no updates ever, right @JiveTurkey

 

[Sascha Franck]

The GSG was my choice for this kind of thing, I really love that model.

I like that one a whole lot, too. But in comparison to the Super Reverb IMO it calls for somewhat more attention when adjusting things, so in case all I need is a really clean sound (on its own or as a pedal platform), I gravitate towards the SR.

 

[ChordInversion]

There is no reason any top tier modeling device can’t also run top quality captures,

Isn't there at least some likelihood that one vendor will be (or be perceived as being) "best" with one, and another with the other? That's all I'm suggesting.

so I could see the top of the market converging. If there are two different top dogs, I think they will be different market segments.

That could be.

I'll be honest in saying that my TMP experience has made me a little extra sensitive to the reality of finite resources. If I'm waiting for updates and improvements to my modeler, I want all hands on deck for that. I'm not interested in the same product team resources spinning up and refining a profiling technology that I will never even consider using. I also don't want any interface or functionality trade offs (I can't think of any that are certain, but I have been in technology for long enough to know that trade offs are part of the business) to enable profiling. I am sure that will annoy people who like profiling. And maybe them both being in every device is inevitable. But I very strongly hope not.

 

[ChordInversion]

Hell, i'd argue Fractal has too many amps. I think the AxeFX III is close to 350 models now, which is just insane.

I don't know that it's that many, but I love it. It perfectly works with my experimentation/creative style. The incredibly sparse selection in the Tone Master Pro, on the other hand, makes it nothing but a very expensive practice device for me. But for someone who just wants a Super Reverb sound with an occasional Marshall thrown in, I'm sure it's fine.

But yeah, if you want the ultimate in options and flexibility, it's really hard to go wrong with Fractal. It comes at a cost thou.

It does. I virtually never do anything on most modelers' on-device interface but adjust the volume/gain/tone controls, though, so as long as the editor is great (and it is), on-device UI has almost no relevance to me. That is clearly a small minority point of view.

Note that Cliff is notoriously against capturing, and remains steadfast convinced modelling is a superior approach. Other brands, though? Seems we're there already.

This makes me slightly more loyal to my FM9.

 

[ChordInversion]

That's just virtual amp collecting. If you want to do that, sure, stick with Fractal.

I reject that pejorative framing. I don't want to collect anything. I want to use lots of sounds. If Cliff gives them to me, I'm happy. I'm not scouring shop for more Fractal amps to add. If another device gives me fewer sounds to use, in that way they've giving me less for my money.

My experience with all that is that it's initially a lot of fun to have the wealth of options. Then over time you start finding your favorites, and everything else becomes "I'm bored and want to try something different".

What's wrong with wanting to try something different? I've has some of my best ideas emerge that way. People have been using pedals for that kind of influence for as long as pedals have existed.

On the other hand, for people who don't capture their own stuff (which is the vast majority), captures are what actually enable virtual amp collection. There are packs to buy, thousands of free ones to download and sift through, and debates as to who is the 'best' among the capture sellers. You even get to collect a dozen or more of a single amp (down to the channel), either to get it set up in different ways or to simply get all the "top" versions.

Mind you, people who like captures aren't wrong. People who use only a few amp sounds aren't wrong. But I'm not, either.

 

[ChordInversion]

Helix currently has 46 unique real amp models if you combine the different channels into one amp. It also has 15 Line6 original models. That's currently spread over 94 different amp models in total.

The numbers I've seen for Helix Stadium Agoura amp models have been I think 16 or 22? If they can do 22, that would be close to half of the Helix's real amp models.

I think that would cover a lot of ground already if you skip some of the similar amps. E.g you have a JCM800 2203 model but not 2204, 5150 but no Invective, 100W Superlead but no Park 75 or Plexi Tremolo 50 and so on.

Certainly. I am already planning to buy one. I also hope they expand their range of options with subsequent updates, which we all have every reason to believe they will.