Line 6 Helix Stadium Talk

[Sascha Franck]

If proxy gets to the point where we can shoot reverbs, some of us might be begging you to go on a little mission.

There could as well just be a proper IR loader. No idea why we don't see any of those in any top modeler anyway, there can't be a technical reason.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Fwiw, I ripped the audio from Leo Gibson's video and trimmed out the important parts (following the nulltest, where he's comparing dynamics and what not). Then I lined them up very exactly below each other and ever so slightly adjusted the volumes so they'd be identical. I could now play the original, select one of the other tracks (Stadium or Sonulab) and instantly solo them with a single click (and with my eyes closed so I would kinda randomly click around dozens of times to make myself forget which track was playing).
I'm not able to tell much of a difference during all the louder parts, but on all ringing out notes, the Stadium was closer to the original, in addition, the Sonulab files are noisier (made one test to level the different takes on the ending noise, when I got the noise level pretty much identical, the Sonulab was noticeable lower in overall volume, which kinda proved what my ears were suggesting already).
IOW, to me it seems that Proxy is doing a pretty decent job already, at least compared to the Sonulab box.

 

[Bosons Tear]

Fwiw, I ripped the audio from Leo Gibson's video and trimmed out the important parts (following the nulltest, where he's comparing dynamics and what not). Then I lined them up very exactly below each other and ever so slightly adjusted the volumes so they'd be identical. I could now play the original, select one of the other tracks (Stadium or Sonulab) and instantly solo them with a single click (and with my eyes closed so I would kinda randomly click around dozens of times to make myself forget which track was playing).
I'm not able to tell much of a difference during all the louder parts, but on all ringing out notes, the Stadium was closer to the original, in addition, the Sonulab files are noisier (made one test to level the different takes on the ending noise, when I got the noise level pretty much identical, the Sonulab was noticeable lower in overall volume, which kinda proved what my ears were suggesting already).
IOW, to me it seems that Proxy is doing a pretty decent job already, at least compared to the Sonulab box.

thank you for taking the time to make those comparisons and sharing

 

[Bosons Tear]

So Leo proves two things:

He suffers from willful ignorance because he refused to hear any details from the people who actually designed Proxy and stated null testing isn’t a good way to judge Proxy. Apparently he was not able to hold on to his beliefs if he let them talk to him. So he chose to listen to AI as his source instead.

Even if you take his opinion as valid, that ‘Null tests are relevant’, he claimed the null test is subject to being less accurate when testing Proxy than NAM. He didn’t and likely couldn’t tell us what the margin of error will be when using null results to compare the two. Then went on to base his opinion on it regardless of his own disclaimer. Good thing he said this is just his opinion, we may disagree and that is totally fine.

The other thing was regarding aliasing, he established Line 6 Proxy has less ‘squirrels’ than NAM.

Less squirrels and null is void

 

[Dom Mcsweeney]

If we had a Stadium Native plugin that supported Proxy it would allow for a slightly more robust test environment in comparison with NAM - removing any hardware limitations or differences, from the equation. As it stands, aside from whatever people may think of null tests, those aspects are now part of Leo's results regardless of if that test is reliable or not.

 

[privatezero]

Looks like Leo's been doing "his own research" a lot these days.

View attachment 60906

Not gonna derail the topic here, but most of these quoted articles have nothing to do with the topic at hand - and at least one has bogus authors listed. It's not a great look when you present yourself as an authority on a subject armed with nothing but ChatGPT slop.

To be fair, I had ChatGPt check his sources and they said they were correct.

But what was interesting was ChatGPT also said those sources directly support Line6 claims that his Null tests are not a good measurement to be used because of the way they build there clones.


And then he proceeeds to use the same test that he knows will give skewed results.

Real science here.

 

[OneEng]

Fwiw, I ripped the audio from Leo Gibson's video and trimmed out the important parts (following the nulltest, where he's comparing dynamics and what not). Then I lined them up very exactly below each other and ever so slightly adjusted the volumes so they'd be identical. I could now play the original, select one of the other tracks (Stadium or Sonulab) and instantly solo them with a single click (and with my eyes closed so I would kinda randomly click around dozens of times to make myself forget which track was playing).
I'm not able to tell much of a difference during all the louder parts, but on all ringing out notes, the Stadium was closer to the original, in addition, the Sonulab files are noisier (made one test to level the different takes on the ending noise, when I got the noise level pretty much identical, the Sonulab was noticeable lower in overall volume, which kinda proved what my ears were suggesting already).
IOW, to me it seems that Proxy is doing a pretty decent job already, at least compared to the Sonulab box.

Less squirrels and null is void

First, let me preface my statements with the fact that I don't believe that NULL testing or accuracy is the most important thing to consider for most people buying these devices. I believe "good tone" is by definition good.

Now, I have heard some pretty vehement defendants of NULL testing here and other forums (and most certainly Leo). Adding in the aliasing test, the conclusion was that NAM had significantly more aliasing than did Proxy.

To my ears, I thought it sounded like NAM was closer, but now I need to go back and listen again.

If NAM has more aliasing, how can it NULL significantly better?

 

[Sascha Franck]

If NAM has more aliasing, how can it NULL significantly better?

Due to some things described in the Kemper thread.

 

[JiveTurkey]

If Null testing wasn't already jump out a window fuel enough

If Leo Gibson videos as a whole weren't already jump out a window fuel enough

You now have Null doesn't apply to Proxy jump out a window fuel

Jesus fucking christ

 

[Bosons Tear]

If Null testing wasn't already jump out a window fuel enough

If Leo Gibson videos as a whole weren't already jump out a window fuel enough

You now have Null doesn't apply to Proxy jump out a window fuel

Jesus fucking christ

I'm on the ground floor

 

[Bosons Tear]

Being green to capture and finding a minute to give it a try the most surprising thing was how well the high gain clone cleans up rolling back guitar volume. If I had too I could pull off a cleanish, crunch and lead with just the volume knob. Is anyone else seeing a simular result?

 

[Bosons Tear]

FYI
Might be a good idea to grab up memory if your going to need it.
Sony announces that it's suspending fulfillment of all orders for nearly its entire SD and CF express memory card product lines "due to the global shortage of semiconductors (memory) and other factors."

 

[[Nathan]]

Ripping through some pedal captures today, is there a wishlist of Stadium stuff somewhere?

- Clone subfolders would be handy
- I cant see a way to use a dial and roll through pedal captures. If thats not currently doable, would also be handy (I'm doing captures at various gain points. It takes time to open it, select, open it again, select rinse repeat).

I was cruising the Drives yesterday and was thinking, wish there was a Dirty Tree in there... well I have one now

 

[StarF666]

Yeah, the possibility to add some drive flavors is really nice. Got good results with a Peachfuzz, a Sunface and a Diablo. Gonna try to clone my Hudson Broadcast next. But you're sacrificing quite some DSP.

 

[[Nathan]]

Yeah, the possibility to add some drive flavors is really nice. Got good results with a Peachfuzz, a Sunface and a Diablo. Gonna try to clone my Hudson Broadcast next. But you're sacrificing quite some DSP.

My patches are pretty simple most of the times so not a major issue for me
Gate --> Drive --> Amp --> Cab/IR --> Delay --> Verb

Maybe some modulation but rarely

 

[BenIfin]

Fwiw, I ripped the audio from Leo Gibson's video and trimmed out the important parts (following the nulltest, where he's comparing dynamics and what not). Then I lined them up very exactly below each other and ever so slightly adjusted the volumes so they'd be identical. I could now play the original, select one of the other tracks (Stadium or Sonulab) and instantly solo them with a single click (and with my eyes closed so I would kinda randomly click around dozens of times to make myself forget which track was playing).
I'm not able to tell much of a difference during all the louder parts, but on all ringing out notes, the Stadium was closer to the original, in addition, the Sonulab files are noisier (made one test to level the different takes on the ending noise, when I got the noise level pretty much identical, the Sonulab was noticeable lower in overall volume, which kinda proved what my ears were suggesting already).
IOW, to me it seems that Proxy is doing a pretty decent job already, at least compared to the Sonulab box.

I was thinking of doing the same thing, but couldn't be bothered - too lazy !

I don't have or use NAM / SS Pro, and curiosity aside, am probably never going to again [ I did on an iPad Rig for 4 months] . I don't have or use Stadium .... but will one day in the [far] future when Stadium Native is released but again will almost certainly never use any Proxy Blocks.

Putting aside the overall vibe of Leo's video being one of my "my reputation is in doubt so I'm pulling out all stops even though I am contradicting what I just said, multiple times in the same video, and what others - including L6 have already - told him about LUFS test" ....... I was clicking back and forth on the Y/T Clips where actual guitar was played.

To my ears in this test, I preferred Proxy.

I thought Proxy was slightly less bright and a touch under-gained.

NAM gain was a touch closer, but it was audibly brighter than the Proxy ..... but the brightness seemed harsh and not in the same frequency range as the Soldano. Maybe this is an issue with how NAM works (?) Maybe its a NAM aliasing issue (?) Maybe its the SS Pro analog back-end (?) I don't know.

Quite ironic that his own video that claims to demonstrate how important X is, simultaneously demonstrates how pointless X is.

But he had footnotes so it must be scientific