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[Nathan]
Shredder
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You lined em up with the big C then kod them with the “shithouse”, keep up the good work
Line 6 Helix Stadium Talk
- Thread starter laxu
- Start date
Sascha Franck
Goatlord
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This is all fine and I could absolutely see me using it, but there's still a major issue (IMO at least - and I'm aware of it as I was running into it quite sometimes with the GT-1000):
How do you know which presets are affected when you alter parameters? Even warning messages wouldn't help you much with that issue as you'd only know "some" presets "could" be affected. But you'd never know which.
I actually think this is a really important issue that needs to be tackled somehow.
Kinda along with that comes another issue (not just as important, but it will defenitely add up over time): Unlike "plain" favourites that you could simply delete without harming any patches (because the patches would always call up their block settings anyway), when doing some "global favourites" housekeeping, hence deleting some of those favourites and they were in use in some patches, you'd lose the block's interconnection within these patches (unless you'd keep a "hidden" connection, which would open yet another can of worms).
As a result, to always be on the safe side, you'd have to keep all of these global favourites once and forever, And the amount could certainly add up over years, rendering the favourite list into quite a mess.
Also, another possible issue (not saying it's the most likely thing to happen, but it will pretty certainly happen to some folks):
You might end up using global favourites across patches made for different purposes. So your global chorus favourite might be used in both your "function stuff" and "let's rock out" setlists, making things yet harder to keep track of.
Fwiw, much of this also applies to the way IRs are dealt with (which not one single company has gotten right, either). Delete an IR and you never know which patches will be affected. And in case of the OG Helix, it wouldn't even tell you which IR was missing, let alone offering a search option (solution: IRs should at least all be tagged as "in use" and there should be a software sampler alike search option once you're connected through an editor).
Anyway, all of this resulted in my idea regarding groups (or setlists or whatever fancy name might be used), *the* main important condition being: Only patches within any given group can share block settings, without any exceptions.
IMO this would add a very decent "safety layer".
I could imagine different ways to get there, the easiest way possibly being, well, a setlist. Copy a patch into a setlist, or, even easier (but maybe somewhat riskier), just tag it. Once that's done any block within that group could as well be tagged as "groupwide" and after you've done so, it'd show up in your block selection (or block preset) menu.
There also needed to be no warning messages with that method, because as soon as you'd saved a patch outside of that given group, it'd simply lose all of its "groupwide" settings (there might be a "save as within group" option, though, to easily expand the group).
molul
Shredder
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In the new Stadium big screen and UI, it should be easy adding a way to see which presets are using a global favourite. For instance, go to global favourites list (or to favourites list and filter by "global"), tap one of the blocks, a "Used in..." (or whatever label) button appears somewhere, and it shows the list of presets where it's used. Probably even giving the option to unlink each preset from the global block.
But as you said, it's like IR's. User should be aware this has to be used carefully, and always have a backup in case things mess up.
Just a warning saying "This global favorite is used in N presets and all blocks will be unlinked. Are you sure?" should be enough. Together with the list of presets where it's used, should help the user not to make a wrong choice.
Not really. Cleaning blocks would be perfectly possible, but the user would have to be careful. Line6 should only make sure the user knows what he's doing at any time.
Sascha Franck
Goatlord
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But that's not solving the issue as you still wouldn't know which *other* preset would be using the block you are tweaking within a preset. And the last thing I wanted was a warning message popping up each time when I edit a block.
For me, this is the most important issue with global blocks (and as said, I was running into it some times already).
I'm fine with the warning - but you would still end up with a whole truckload of these global favourites after time. I mean, there's like several hundreds of presets and if they could share any amount of global favourites, you could end up with a never ending mess.
See, all of this would be solved if blocks could only be interconnected within groups/setlists. None of the issues would even arise at all.
Karl Houseknecht
Roadie
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Everyone thinks they want global blocks until they actually have them and discover what a giant pain in the ass they are after they inadvertently ruin dozens of presets by making a change they intended for a single preset but forgot to unlink the block.
Perrymusica
Roadie
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Share something I was working on. How Focus View would work on my Hx Stomp. With a delay (If you like U2, I'll show you one of the many configurations I'm testing.)
Sascha Franck
Goatlord
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This is precisely why I thought of them to ideally be a group-only thing.
Global blocks at least for me are quite glorious in the GT-1000 - but boy, can you easily mess things up in case you don't constantly remember what you did. I have even started documenting my global block names and what they're used for in a text file, so I don't accidentally mess patches up (doesn't get much better with two GT-1000s sometimes used for different but also for the same gigs...).
And fwiw, I really think all this would get much more clear/obvious if they were rather called "performance blocks" or something similar, only existing in a setting actually meant to be used in a performance. You could obviously still abuse them for all sorts of other things, but they should defenitely not be a part of any regular patch creating schedule.
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To me, it would make more sense to have an "update favourites in current preset" option.
That way, you load a favourite.... you make changes to it... you save over it.... any other preset that uses the favourite can be deliberately updated by the user using the provided option. No mistakes. No voodoo. Easy to understand.
Sascha Franck
Goatlord
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For the umpteenth time: That would cause the same issues I've described already. Besides, I don't want to save anything during soundchecks or gigs. Adjust, done.
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No one is talking to you.
Sascha Franck
Goatlord
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I don't care whether you are refering to yourself as "no one", but when the same stuff is repeated over and over by folks who obviously didn't think through things carefully, I reply.
Sascha Franck
Goatlord
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Oh, so feature requests aren't allowed on a gear forum? Interesting news!
Besides, that "product" doesn't exist yet. But it could.
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You made your request several days ago, why are you still complaining about this? Buy fractal and you’ll have global blocks if it’s that important to you.
Sascha Franck
Goatlord
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I'm not complaining. I'm showing up shortcomings in possible ways to handle things others have posted.
I actually wanted to purchase an FM9 at one point in time. Only to find out it doesn't have global blocks.
Apart from that, I want a proper solution.
Well it doesn’t seem like Helix Stadium is for you at the moment. You have made your feature request so maybe it’s time to talk about your dream solution elsewhere. Unless you are just looking to argue with people…
ian_dissonance
Shredder
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Just press the save button. It’s fine.
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It's literally finer than fine. It is the ideal workflow. I don't want my hardware nor software making arbitrary save decisions for me, where I overwrite stuff without meaning to.
ian_dissonance
Shredder
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Or changing something and then accidentally landing on the wrong preset and your changes are gone. I don’t get it, but Sascha’s ideal workflow sounds like way too many variables. I just want a delay or a drive or an amp that I can link to a handful of presets.
Sascha Franck
Goatlord
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I'll let you in on something (you could possibly still look it up at TOP): When L6 introduced snapshots, I was one of the first to request switchable snapshot bypass - without owning a Floor. They introduced it a while later and a little while after that I bought a unit.
I just want to adjust global parameters as I would on an analog amp. No analog amp requires me to save anything just because I've touched the treble pot. This is one of the ideas behind global blocks anyway.
Besides, for the big GT-1000 setup, I have quite some global block parameters mapped to MIDI so I can control them via Touch OSC from a tablet. No way to save that way. I actually plan on purchasing a small MIDI knob box. Would be just the same issue. Being forced to save would render these approaches void as I'd still have to bow down.
How so?
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