Line 6 Helix Stadium Talk

[mikah912]

Doubt that’s the case, or else it would have been done.

How could it have been done when the feature has yet to launch?

 

[mbenigni]

How could it have been done when the feature has yet to launch?

 

[JiveTurkey]

Have you guys watched Plubus?

 

[SeeD]

Doubt that’s the case, or else it would have been done.

It's in the future maybe. I hope so

 

[mbenigni]

Have you guys watched Plubus?

Bro, do you even Russian Dolls?

 

[JiveTurkey]

Bro, do you even Russian Dolls?

She's excellent in "Ponies"

 

[Dez]

She's excellent in "Ponies"

 

[mbenigni]

Bro, do you even Ponies -> Bronies.

So 2015 or something...

 

[Chocol8]

You have to wonder if the person who drew that had ever seen a real horse.

 

[Dez]

Bro, do you even Ponies -> Bronies.

So 2015 or something...

My daughter was obsessed with it for like FOUR YEARS

 

[Sascha Franck]

After using the Boss stuff for the last year global blocks/stompbox/user block presets that follow across patches is something whatever I buy next will have. If I’m at the rehearsal spot and a I want to adjust my main live dirt sound, being able to do it on one preset and have the same change appear on all my live presets is sooooo much better than going preset to preset just to turn the gain down, or turn the reverb mix up. After having the functionality it honestly seems kind of silly all of these devices don’t have something similar.

Fwiw, as you know, I'm asking for global blocks since years already. People used to laugh at me and tell me I wouldn't know anything about properly preparing patches. Which was specifically "interesting" as most of them were bedroom warriors.
Fortunately, that has somewhat changed by now.
I don't see global blocks generally gaining much momentum, though. As of today, there's two devices featuring them (ok, maybe 2.5, if you count in the Kemper's parameter lock) and that was it.

 

[molul]

Fwiw, as you know, I'm asking for global blocks since years already. People used to laugh at me and tell me I wouldn't know anything about properly preparing patches. Which was specifically "interesting" as most of them were bedroom warriors.
Fortunately, that has somewhat changed by now.
I don't see global blocks generally gaining much momentum, though. As of today, there's two devices featuring them (ok, maybe 2.5, if you count in the Kemper's parameter lock) and that was it.

I would love having global blocks, but in a different way than you described it

 

[Sascha Franck]

I would love having global blocks, but in a different way than you described it

So, how?

(I actually never described any singular option.)

 

[laxu]

I don't see global blocks generally gaining much momentum, though. As of today, there's two devices featuring them (ok, maybe 2.5, if you count in the Kemper's parameter lock) and that was it.

I've only used Fractal's implementation and it's IMO just too complicated for what should be a very simple thing. I think most people get confused by the different options and linking and unlinking. It should be a simple "Use global Amp block slot #3 instead of preset Amp".

It's strange that it's not a thing because it solves so many problems of modelers even if you apply it only to the amp/cab block. Don't have enough horsepower for every effect you need in a single preset? Global block your Amp and cab, and build a new preset around a new set of fx.

It's even an easy to understand parallel to real world rigs. You tend to have multiple pedals you might swap around, but only one amp and cab.

 

[bucephalus]

I would love having global blocks, but in a different way than you described it

The different way being you don't bring it up every other day

 

[Sascha Franck]

The different way being you don't bring it up every other day

Well, AFAICS, he didn't bring up any ideas even once.

 

[Sascha Franck]

I've only used Fractal's implementation and it's IMO just too complicated for what should be a very simple thing. I think most people get confused by the different options and linking and unlinking. It should be a simple "Use global Amp block slot #3 instead of preset Amp".

Having used Boss' system for quite a while, this isn't as trivial. The most important issue IMO being able to have an overview of when you're actually using global blocks and when you might want to unlink them.

As an example: When I got my first GT-1000 and invested time into setting up various global blocks, I was running into issues more than once. I would for instance just copy one of my live patches so I could as well use it for recording (which requires some different settings). I would then, say, just fool around with an EQ block and mess up my live patch. Running into that is pretty easy and without using the editor, unlinking global blocks is a very annoying affair.
What I'd like to see in these cases is an option to simply unlink all global blocks while copying a preset.

Then there's another issue, potentially even more harmful (depending on how many patches with global blocks utilizes you are using): There's no overview of which patch is using any given global block. And there can't exactly be any such an overview - you don't want a list telling you "one moment good sir, this block is already used in patches "014 - Inglorious Lead", "954 - Shrink My Balls" and "522 - Lame Ducks Forever"."
A potential solution could be to not have global blocks but "global groups". You could for instance create such a group for all patches relevant for a certain project/gig (such groups could have other meaningful purposes as well, btw). Only blocks within that very group could then be linked groupwide. That way you could never mess up a patch outside of that group (the group info should obviously somehow be displayed at all times - which would be easy by using some color coding).

The global group idea could even be expanded. Could as well serve as a playlist container. Maybe along with another idea: Any such groups could possibly be an "overlay" for existing patches, which wouldn't be touched on their own, so the adjustments made inside that group would rather be "offsets" from the source patch - and the grouped patches could never just exist on their own, they would always need a source patch they're based on outside of the group. That way you'd never mess up any core patches, hence this would add another layer of "patch security".

Before thinking about any of the (several) possible methods, it has to be considered what global blocks/groups are actually making the most sense for. IMO it's largely (perhaps almost exclusively) live playing demands. Which is why the "overlay/offset" thing IMO would be a great thing to have.
I mean, you usually don't need global blocks while creating a new preset (you might need block presets but no global ones - unfortunately this is what's very wrong in Boss land as they are combining the two categories in an unholy manner). Before attending a gig, session or whatsoever, you typically have your patches ready to roll and all you want/need would be to, say, alter the volume of your main clean amp model across 3 patches you're using it for. The proposed overlay/offset method would cover that scenario just fine.

 

[laxu]

Having used Boss' system for quite a while, this isn't as trivial. The most important issue IMO being able to have an overview of when you're actually using global blocks and when you might want to unlink them.

As an example: When I got my first GT-1000 and invested time into setting up various global blocks, I was running into issues more than once. I would for instance just copy one of my live patches so I could as well use it for recording (which requires some different settings). I would then, say, just fool around with an EQ block and mess up my live patch. Running into that is pretty easy and without using the editor, unlinking global blocks is a very annoying affair.
What I'd like to see in these cases is an option to simply unlink all global blocks while copying a preset.

Then there's another issue, potentially even more harmful (depending on how many patches with global blocks utilizes you are using): There's no overview of which patch is using any given global block. And there can't exactly be any such an overview - you don't want a list telling you "one moment good sir, this block is already used in patches "014 - Inglorious Lead", "954 - Shrink My Balls" and "522 - Lame Ducks Forever"."
A potential solution could be to not have global blocks but "global groups". You could for instance create such a group for all patches relevant for a certain project/gig (such groups could have other meaningful purposes as well, btw). Only blocks within that very group could then be linked groupwide. That way you could never mess up a patch outside of that group (the group info should obviously somehow be displayed at all times - which would be easy by using some color coding).

The global group idea could even be expanded. Could as well serve as a playlist container. Maybe along with another idea: Any such groups could possibly be an "overlay" for existing patches, which wouldn't be touched on their own, so the adjustments made inside that group would rather be "offsets" from the source patch - and the grouped patches could never just exist on their own, they would always need a source patch they're based on outside of the group. That way you'd never mess up any core patches, hence this would add another layer of "patch security".

Before thinking about any of the (several) possible methods, it has to be considered what global blocks/groups are actually making the most sense for. IMO it's largely (perhaps almost exclusively) live playing demands. Which is why the "overlay/offset" thing IMO would be a great thing to have.
I mean, you usually don't need global blocks while creating a new preset (you might need block presets but no global ones - unfortunately this is what's very wrong in Boss land as they are combining the two categories in an unholy manner). Before attending a gig, session or whatsoever, you typically have your patches ready to roll and all you want/need would be to, say, alter the volume of your main clean amp model across 3 patches you're using it for. The proposed overlay/offset method would cover that scenario just fine.

I know what you propose here comes from solving some real world problems, but just reading that sounds to me like another overcomplicated system that likely would not gain much traction.

On most units global blocks seem like an afterthought shoehorned into existing functionality which is why visibility and usability is poor. The more management involved, the more annoying this sort of feature gets IMO.

 

[dean701]

I know what you propose here comes from solving some real world problems, but just reading that sounds to me like another overcomplicated system that likely would not gain much traction.

On most units global blocks seem like an afterthought shoehorned into existing functionality which is why visibility and usability is poor. The more management involved, the more annoying this sort of feature gets IMO.

new function added: save block (instead of save preset)

Banner comes up:
You have just saved the amp block for this preset. We noticed that other presets (7,14,75) also contain this amp block. Would you like to save those too with the new settings? If so, which ones?

 

[Sascha Franck]

but just reading that sounds to me like another overcomplicated system that likely would not gain much traction.

I think it could be quite easy to handle if you'd commit yourself to one of the possible methods. Place patch in group (or maybe just within a setlist) and any block used within any patch in that group could become global (well "groupwide"). And that was it already.

On most units global blocks seem like an afterthought shoehorned into existing functionality which is why visibility and usability is poor. The more management involved, the more annoying this sort of feature gets IMO.

Absolutely. And it sucks.

Banner comes up:
You have just saved the amp block for this preset. We noticed that other presets (7,14,75) also contain this amp block. Would you like to save those too with the new settings? If so, which ones?

I think that'd be too much.
If the easiest (yet somewhat limited and also potentially "conflict causing") method would be chosen, when saving any patch containing a global block would be "saved as", you'd be asked whether you'd want to keep the global block assignments (all of them) or not. If you then wanted to still use some global blocks for that saved patch, you'd have to reassign them.
This would possibly be the easiest way - and likely also the easiest to implement.

Really, for me the most relevant issue would be how to implement any method without causing potential unwanted patch damage. Which is why the idea of groups came to my mind. Because all patches outside of any given group would be 100% safe using such a method and you'd always have to manually assign them to one of your global groups to allow for anything to be adjusted across multiple patches. You should obviously be able to name these groups yourself. "Shoegaze Gig 10/09/2026". As said, that could as well serve as a setlist thing.