Line 6 Helix Stadium Talk

[EOengineer]

I am not saying he is wrong, I was just helping write the YouTube title for him.

NOW FOR THE LOW LOW PRICE OF 19.99….

 

[Goontone]

Have you listened to the clips shared here before? Especially the 5153 and Mark IIC+ models? It's not my opinion, it's just a fact.


If I remember correctly, Line 6 shared some comparison samples of their models and the real amps they had modeled when the Helix first launched. Doing something similar for Augora could end the suspicion and appeal to their potential customers.

I think what you want to be true, doesn't exist. My search for the ultimate deluxe reverb had me test 2 65s built in the same month and both sounded pretty different. The Stadium sounds and feels great. That's all i can personally say. I can tell you there isn't any monsters under your bed. That doesn't mean you still wont think they are once the light goes out. Buy one, return it if its not for you, or don't. But until then don't worry about other people saying there are in fact monsters under their bed while most of us just had socks.

 

[EOengineer]

It’s always the SLO. Same shit happened with the QC launch, and then they had to go back and release a revised model after we hated the first version. (Granted I think the issue was they bonked the model, not used a bad reference amp) It gets tough because the OG’s are naturally darker than the reissues, but the reissues dramatically improved the cleans. (And are still being improved to this day on things like the X88 with the SRV altered modes)

Hard to hit moving target…

Sounds like we need a hybrid model with the new clean channel and old gain channel!

 

[mbenigni]

It’s always the SLO.

I blame the fact that none of these SLO models make me sound like Matthias Jabs. They're all broken!

 

[Dez]

This thread has me reaching for the devil’s lettuce omg

 

[Whizzinby]

Sounds like we need a hybrid model with the new clean channel and old gain channel!

I’d take the Reissue clean, X88 altered clean mode, OG crunch, Reissue lead. Shit gets complicated quick with SLO Obsessions.

 

[Orvillain]

It’s always the SLO. Same shit happened with the QC launch, and then they had to go back and release a revised model after we hated the first version. (Granted I think the issue was they bonked the model, not used a bad reference amp) It gets tough because the OG’s are naturally darker than the reissues, but the reissues dramatically improved the cleans. (And are still being improved to this day on things like the X88 with the SRV altered modes)

Hard to hit a moving target…

My mate has a reissue one. It is absolutely stellar.

 

[EOengineer]

The Stadium sounds and feels great. That's all i can personally say. I can tell you there isn't any monsters under your bed.

Funny how this works.

Every time I get in my pool I check for sharks first.

I watched this pool get built.
I open it every year.
I live 2 hours from the nearest salt water body.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Because again I wouldn't expect a model of a proper SLO100 to be able to sound like a modded Jet City.

why's that? a circuit is a circuit. The component brands and transformers do make a difference but it's pretty small vs changing the actual circuit or values to something different. Circuits have to behave somewhat predictably - it would be weird if you built the same circuit 5 times and things were very different. If you put 5 5 Marshalls up against 5 like for like Ceriatones, dial them all so tolerances are accounted for and record them in the same way, its going to be very hard to distinguish which is which.

It's not like Helix's model was the only one that got close....

 

[Whizzinby]

My mate has a reissue one. It is absolutely stellar.

Personally, I think the reissue just sounds better, generally speaking.

But there is a nostalgia attached to the OGs. (Even though Mike himself spent decades tweaking and trying to improve upon the original design)

 

[JiveTurkey]

The BAD SLO I played in Nashville last year was

 

[MirrorProfiles]

this is the holy grail SLO (only has one channel and no fx loop IIRC):

 

[Goontone]

Funny how this works.

Every time I get in my pool I check for sharks first.

I watched this pool get built.
I open it every year.
I live 2 hours from the nearest salt water body.

i always check for snakes in the toilet and it hasn't been above 30 where i live for 6 weeks.

 

[Orvillain]

why's that? a circuit is a circuit. The component brands and transformers do make a difference but it's pretty small vs changing the actual circuit or values to something different. Circuits have to behave somewhat predictably - it would be weird if you built the same circuit 5 times and things were very different. If you put 5 5 Marshalls up against 5 like for like Ceriatones, dial them all so tolerances are accounted for and record them in the same way, its going to be very hard to distinguish which is which.

It's not like Helix's model was the only one that got close....

I mean.... that literally happens all of the time in valve amps.... no two circuits are exactly the same.

I already gave my Laney VH100R example. Just changing power tubes from EL34's to 6L6's massively changes the tone. Extrapolate that out to changing every internal capacitor, to the transformers, and everything else going on inside an amp..... no matter where you set the pots, you're always going to get some character differences. We've seen this time and time again in the valve amp world, I don't think it is a controversial statement.

I mean shit.... looking at the Laney VH again, there was a diode in the amp that was completely missing from the schematic. So while a circuit is a circuit in theory, in practice there are always differences. You hear it when comparing various old Memory Man delays as well even.

It isn't really any different to what we've both observed across various examples of the Diezel VH4 - massive tonal differences from revision to revision. Much of it not documented as well. Likewise with the Dual Rectifier... they all sound good, but many of them sound distinct from one another.

I genuinely don't think this is a controversial take.

Also, from what I've read the JCA100 was closer to the Hot Rod 100 than the SLO. I know you've got a modded HDM, but unless you have both amps side by side and trace the circuits, there's no telling what schematic level differences there are.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

It isn't really any different to what we've both observed across various examples of the Diezel VH4 - massive tonal differences from revision to revision. Much of it not documented as well. Likewise with the Dual Rectifier... they all sound good, but many of them sound distinct from one another.

These are literally different circuits and component values though, so the differences have a clear and identifiable reason for sounding different. That’s going beyond tolerance variation and drift.

I’ve owned multiple versions of the same amp (various 5150’s and JCM800’s). They all vary a bit but it’s way less than people think, as long as you dial them in by ear. If you change the actual circuit (like a Rev F vs Rev G) then it’s going to sound different. And depending on where in the circuit, sometimes you get some overlap with other circuits just by adjusting settings a bit.

 

[Orvillain]

These are literally different circuits and component values though, so the differences have a clear and identifiable reason for sounding different. That’s going beyond tolerance variation and drift.

Yes, that's my point ???? Your Jet City might have a 200kohm resistor in a specific place, and the real SLO might have a 50kohm in the same place. I don't know without pouring over the schematic, but in principle it is possible. Making the comparison weighted and biased.

I’ve owned multiple versions of the same amp (various 5150’s and JCM800’s). They all vary a bit but it’s way less than people think, as long as you dial them in by ear.

Yeah I agree with this for sure. But I think a bunch of the examples posted are people dialing in the HX model and the Agoura model exactly the same, and then acting shocked when they don't match. The clips I've posted, I just tried to get the best sound from each model, and bring them as close as possible. Agoura always seems to punch a bit more, and feel better to play. But at the cost of high frequency content sometimes. Although I'm pretty sure they've messed with something in the recent firmware, because it feels different than the release one.

If you change the actual circuit (like a Rev F vs Rev G) then it’s going to sound different. And depending on where in the circuit, sometimes you get some overlap with other circuits just by adjusting settings a bit.

Yeah totally. But that's quite a different thing versus changing out an entirely different transformer; which I do think have a massive impact on the sound of an amp.

We're getting in the weeds a bit now. This is why I wanted to reframe the discussion about behaviour. Because behaviour is easier to validate.

 

[Dez]

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Your Jet City might have a 200kohm resistor in a specific place, and the real SLO might have a 50kohm in the same place. I don't know without pouring over the schematic, but in principle it is possible. Making the comparison weighted and biased.

The JCA was modded so the circuit and values match the SLO - that’s why it’s “SLO modded”. It’s quite a simple circuit to check and verify and a very easy mod to do. Seems to sound pretty close to the majority of Soldano emulations out there too.

 

[banned]

I actually have no problem with that Agoura SLO. The question I have is with respect to the Plexi.

That is arguably the most important amp in the platform and something's clearly wrong with it - but I don't see any discussion around it.

 

[dean701]

I'm sure IK said that with their Rectifier emulations in Amplitube, and I bet they performed accurately to their testing set up. The caveat being that the load is totally skewing the results. There could be a valid reason why the amps are behaving perfectly accurately, but also giving some unexpected results. Its not as binary as good or bad.

I wasn't referring to IK at all. That's a standard line from Cliff. (which, for the record, I do believe him)

Have you tried different SICs for the Stadium tests? (choosing an alternate cab and muting it?)