Line 6 Helix Stadium Talk

[EOengineer]

Looks like L6 isn't answering any questions on modeling quality - just answering feature questions related to showcase, matrix etc.

I wonder what's happening over there at HQ.

I imagine everyone there wears a lot of hats. Probably some devs on the roadmap and other devs handling high profile bugs. Divide and conquer. It’s probably hell there right now. Launches always are like that.

I feel like DI and others already go WAY above and beyond engaging with us so I’m not going to push them for answers. I feel like they are taking feedback seriously, and JFC we’re lucky it’s not Boss. If there’s a problem it will get fixed.

 

[banned]

Lol...but it is true.

It's hard to tell the differences apart in an online audio comparison test but when you play them, you can clearly tell there are some really big differences in how everything sounds and plays between the different modelers. I personally feel that Fractal has a very unique tonality in how everything sounds and feels compared to the others.

 

[banned]

I imagine everyone there wears a lot of hats. Probably some devs on the roadmap and other devs handling high profile bugs. Divide and conquer. It’s probably hell there right now. Launches always are like that.

I feel like DI and others already go WAY above and beyond engaging with us so I’m not going to push them for answers. I feel like they are taking feedback seriously, and JFC we’re lucky it’s not Boss. If there’s a problem it will get fixed.

I don't doubt L6's commitment to the product. I'm a long-time fan and user.

I was thinking more along the lines of what they might be brainstorming in terms of changes needed to the core modeling. Of course, we're not privy to those conversations, but would love to understand where the changes might be headed. I suppose we may never know since L6 doesn't disclose much there.

 

[molul]

Looks like L6 isn't answering any questions on modeling quality - just answering feature questions related to showcase, matrix etc.

I wonder what's happening over there at HQ.

I noticed that too, and I perfectly understand. I bet they're checking what was commented here, but won't say anything about it until they're sure it's either a mistake or something that can be improved, and in both cases, the channel to communicate it would be the next firmware release notes.

 

[2112]

Had some time on a Stadium XL this week. Very nice.

Not too much to add that hasn't already been said here; UI is great, very easy to use and the tones are pretty much all there. Being able to load my favourites from the stomp was a nice surprise that made patch creation way faster. Focus is very fun and a really good use of all that touch screen real estate.

I never got on with the HX verbs but dynamic hall and plate sound pretty good on Stadium. Having a bunch of classic rack reverbs and the Axe-Fx has made me very fussy in regards to 'verb though.

Delays, mod & filter effects are awesome.

I did a quick side by side with the Agoura 2203 and 5150 Red against the legacy versions and slightly preferred the legacy versions - definitely sounds SIC related. The editor was a little unstable but works great when it works.

Definitely gives me "workstation" vibes.

 

[mbenigni]

 

[Lysander]

Had some time on a Stadium XL this week. Very nice.

Mate, video or it never happened

 

[mavrick102000]

"Indignant Whiners"

 

[StarF666]

I personally feel that Fractal has a very unique tonality in how everything sounds and feels compared to the others

That unique tonality is called ACCURACY™.

Jokes aside I also feel Fractal has a sound. When I got my AM4 it felt odd (being a long time Helix user). At one point I even looked if some global EQ or compressor or some of the gimmicks in expert mode was in play. But I have to admit it sounds very good and it's a lot of fun. Especially the amps and the reverbs. I also find most (not all) of the default settings better, especially on the reverbs. It took me quite a while to make dynamic plate to sound close (as good) to a default plate reverb in the AM4. On the other hand I like the drives in the Helix much better. And UX is just on another level. And I don't think the AM4 has bad usability but even the OG Helix is so good to edit and with touch it's just .

<- me, my Stadium and the AM4.

 

[Mooselake]

Looks like L6 isn't answering any questions on modeling quality - just answering feature questions related to showcase, matrix etc.

I wonder what's happening over there at HQ.

I don't think we'll hear much until the eve of a firmware update that makes relevant changes. I think the last thing they would want to do is engage in public speculation about what might be going on. I recall after the earliest observations that something seemed a little out of whack on one of the models Line 6 said they were turning the issue over to the appropriate team member, and I assume work is ongoing.

Speculating even more, I'd guess the situation rankles the Helix team as they have carved their niche by trying to achieve warts-and-all fidelity in their modeling approach. I'm as big a Line 6 fanboy as you'll find, but even to my sketchy ear it does seem that unless Line 6 happened to use outlier instances of the amps in question, something is a little off in the fidelity realm. The irony is that I rather like the models I've been using compared to their OG Helix counterparts. It's probably safe to assume they'll want to make sure they have a solid handle on things before they say too much.

 

[mikah912]

Looks like L6 isn't answering any questions on modeling quality - just answering feature questions related to showcase, matrix etc.

I wonder what's happening over there at HQ.

I don't think there are "questions", per se. Rather, people are making broad assertions based on their (or someone else's) meauring of high end versus a roughly equivalent Fractal model and sometimes the real amp.

But Line 6 is just juggling a ton of priorities right now. They haven't even gotten out the "bugfix" 1.25 update that's top of mind. Proxy is not that far off, and they need to present that and other things at Winter NAMM next week.

Remeasuring amps that are already in the unit and fully functional is - and should be - behind those two focus areas.

 

[Whizzinby]

Lol...but it is true.

It's hard to tell the differences apart in an online audio comparison test but when you play them, you can clearly tell there are some really big differences in how everything sounds and plays between the different modelers. I personally feel that Fractal has a very unique tonality in how everything sounds and feels compared to the others.

I agree, I just find it funny.

I haven’t screwed with digital nearly as long as many here, but in my time following the space…

Helix is indistinguishable from the real thing… then Agoura comes along and sounds different than the previously indistinguishable model. Neural creates a capture that is vastly superior to Kemper, which itself was considered virtually indistinguishable from the real amp. Neural V2 captures come along and are clearly different from their own previously “indistinguishable” captures.

To make no mention of the platforms themselves having their own sonic character. They’re all indistinguishable… but all sound notably different from each other…

But nobody can tell in a mix! Except modeling is a recorded guitar tone. It’s literally what’s in the mix

It wasn’t indistinguishable then, it isn’t now, it won’t be in the immediate future.

Modeling has risen to the occasion from the perspective of “It’s indistinguishable” really meaning “Nobody gives a shit, other than us”.

Which is true.

Brought to you by the Choose Life - Choose Amps Foundation.

 

[Digital Igloo]

Looks like L6 isn't answering any questions on modeling quality - just answering feature questions related to showcase, matrix etc.

I wonder what's happening over there at HQ.

Nah, we're just doing things via PMs. The notion of "Oh, public facing posts provide all the context required to investigate everything we need to appease everyone's sensibilities" is nonexistent.

 

[mikah912]

Nah, we're just doing things via PMs. The notion of "Oh, public facing posts provide all the context required to investigate everything we need to appease everyone's sensibilities" is nonexistent.

But, but, but....if you don't make a public post about it, what will Cordy and the legion of gear influencers do for content?

 

[EOengineer]

I agree, I just find it funny.

I haven’t screwed with digital nearly as long as many here, but in my time following the space…

Helix is indistinguishable from the real thing… then Agoura comes along and sounds different than the previously indistinguishable model. Neural creates a capture that is vastly superior to Kemper, which itself was considered virtually indistinguishable from the real amp. Neural V2 captures come along and are clearly different from their own previously “indistinguishable” captures.

To make no mention of the platforms themselves having their own sonic character. They’re all indistinguishable… but all sound notably different from each other…

But nobody can tell in a mix! Except modeling is a recorded guitar tone. It’s literally what’s in the mix

It wasn’t indistinguishable then, it isn’t now, it won’t be in the immediate future.

Modeling has risen to the occasion from the perspective of “It’s indistinguishable” really meaning “Nobody gives a shit, other than us”.

Which is true.

Brought to you by the Choose Life - Choose Amps Foundation.

The “but it was indistinguishable before lol” shit is getting pretty old. It assumes there’s a consensus when there is not, and we’re dealing with highly subjective circumstances.

In reality the gaps continue to close, the rate varies, and whether something is indistinguishable is very much in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Whizzinby]

The “but it was indistinguishable before lol” shit is getting pretty old. It assumes there’s a consensus when there is not, and we’re dealing with highly subjective circumstances.

In reality the gaps continue to close, the rate varies, and whether something is indistinguishable is very much in the eye of the beholder.

I’m not sure we disagree tbh.

 

[Orvillain]

I haven’t had a chance to run my own controlled tests yet, so I’m holding off on any definitive statements until I can feed the same DI through Stadium, real amps, and a few other modelers.

Just to be clear, I’m not really talking about personal taste or whether someone prefers more or less brightness. That stuff is subjective. My concern is strictly about accuracy and behaviour.

Across multiple high-gain Agoura amps, I’m consistently finding it surprisingly difficult, and sometimes impossible, to get the kind of nasty, aggressive, upper-mid and upper-treble fizz that my real amps produce, or that other modellers can reproduce. Even with treble and presence maxed, and no cuts in the cab block, there’s this sense that something upstream is being low-passed or smoothed in a way I can’t access or control.

It’s not that the tones sound bad. I’m actually enjoying a lot of what Stadium is doing. But the response feels odd because the amps don’t seem to transition into that abrasive, ripping quality that real high-gain circuits hit when pushed. It feels like I’m fighting some kind of HF attenuation somewhere in the chain.

I’m hoping once I get time to do proper comparisons I can bring something more concrete. But right now that’s the behaviour I’m hearing across multiple models.

 

[mbenigni]

Modeling has risen to the occasion from the perspective of “It’s indistinguishable” really meaning “Nobody gives a shit, other than us”.

Which is true.

Nobody gives a shit that it's not indistinguishable other than us, and we're the only ones spending our hard-earned money on it.

Which is hilarious.

 

[JiveTurkey]

LT Vid time

 

[DanRad]

Okay. I believe I've tweaked most of my presets now. I think the Stadium will live mostly on the floor except when crafting new presets or making major adjustments to old ones, when I'll move it up to the stand that puts the touch screen in easy reach.

That is all.

Except maybe to ask Line 6 if an iPad editor that mirrors the touchscreen is at all a possibility in the near future (I ain't getting any younger).