Line 6 Helix Stadium Talk

[mikah912]

I wonder if any of this could be an issue with the SIC that's loaded for certain amps/cabs. It may explain the lack of top end kerrang. I haven't really noticed it on the models I've been using, but I definitely hear it in those 5153 clips.

Very possible. That's why I'm going to compare model-on-model with identical factory cabs only.

I think reactive loads, IRs, and the uncertain SIC applied in each case are just too big of variables to draw any conclusions.

 

[StarF666]

Just compared the 2203s. The Agoura one doesn't even get close in "fizziness" but it sounds killer while the OG one just sounds synthetic in comparison. For the first time I get why people love this amp so much. But I would have to use EQ to dial in some "Air".

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I think reactive loads, IRs, and the uncertain SIC applied in each case are just too big of variables to draw any conclusions.

Its quite easy to account for this stuff by:

- use the matching cab load with the amp rather than using a reactive load.
- use the same IR's across the board
- stick to the matching cab load in the models. HX Legacy used the matching cabs for the SIC modelling, so as long as Agoura and the real amps use the matching cabs, it's even.

And even outside of that, we know that the differences with tolerances and SIC should be something that can mostly be accounted for by adjusting amp settings a little bit. These differences have been largely accounted for and yet even with cranked presence and treble settings, the Agoura 5150 model sounds way darker than what a 5150 at those settings should.

 

[mikah912]

What makes a recto interesting across genres is that it hits exactly the right frequencies that fill out a mix and leave room for vocals. The scoop of a recto is exactly where vocals lie in a mix. It’s an amp I’ve used for filling out pop mixes before and adding weight to choruses.

Plus of course it kills for metal when boosted.

That's it right there for me. I need the boost to tighten up that low end and add some attack. I mean, if you wanna do the 90s thing with just big chords, I'm fine with it on the Vintage channel, at least. But the Red modern with no boost is just too undefined and unruly for what I like to play.

 

[StarF666]

Just compared the 2203s. The Agoura one doesn't even get close in "fizziness" but it sounds killer while the OG one just sounds synthetic in comparison. For the first time I get why people love this amp so much. But I would have to use EQ to dial in some "Air".

Just got fooled by my Stadium because it loaded the default cabs when selecting diffrent amps. The difference is still there but it isn't as big as before. Still the OG amps seem to have more "air". I then replaced the Helix cab with an IR and the differences got smaller (also with the Bassman). Overall I miss some air but the Agoura models feel much better, are more dynamic and have more depth. I'm not sure something is wrong, maybe I just have to get used to that "new" sound. Still curious how the AM4 sounds. Never heard a Fractal before. Still that Stadium workflow

 

[AlbertA]

Maybe..... Hype at 2-3 is the no hype zone? If part of hype uses tilt Eq - I could totally see a typo where setting it to the lowest makes the tilt EQ rolloff the high end?

 

[JiveTurkey]

Maybe..... Hype at 2-3 is the no hype zone? If part of hype uses tilt Eq - I could totally see a typo where setting it to the lowest makes the tilt EQ rolloff the high end?

 

[banned]

The new Agoura modelling seems to be much further away than what the previous gen was. I'm perfectly used to having to adjust for tolerances and different impedance curves and things and it seems to be way beyond that. And IMO there was room for improvement before but this is vastly different.



This kind of preference is a subjective thing. If there are clear differences, that suggests something has gone wrong somewhere - imagine Cliff released a new Fractal update tomorrow and things changed as drastically as these HX vs Agoura differences. It would be a bit confusing if we already know the existing models are very close. The EVH was only modelled recently on Helix so I doubt that anything could have slipped through the net - should the differences not be fairly minor?

Having a preference is fine, and I totally accept that Stadium feels better to play. I'm trying to remove my own tonal preferences from the equation and am focusing more on:

- why is there such a big difference between Agoura and the previous modelling? Either they should both be somewhat close, or one has a problem. Matching the tones and settings closely suggests the old model was pretty good.

- why is it almost effortless to make HX Native sound close to the real amp, while Agoura is almost impossible to get as close? Even if we factor in improved modelling, different tolerance modelling (even though the reference amp is the same), different impedance curves, it's still not possible to make the Agoura model sound like the amp.

Yes, this was my observation as well.

To summarize -

- HX for tones
- Agoura for feel

Something's up with the tones in Agoura. There is a synthetic sound to some of the models. I think they have a ways to go in refining this engine.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Yes, this was my observation as well.

To summarize -

- HX for tones
- Agoura for feel

Something's up with the tones in Agoura. There is a synthetic sound to some of the models. I think they have a ways to go in refining this engine.

You should have given us one of these bad boys!

 

[Digital Igloo]

It's too late for 1.2, but the team will investigate the 5153 soon.

What's interesting is that so many people in our A/B/X listening tests called Agoura less "synthetic" (and IIRC, "less homogenous") than the usual suspects, including the most popular box on this forum. Still, we'll take another look/listen.

 

[Deadpan]

It's too late for 1.2, but the team will investigate the 5153 soon.

What's interesting is that so many people in our A/B/X listening tests called Agoura less "synthetic" (and IIRC, "less homogenous") than the usual suspects, including the most popular box on this forum. Still, we'll take another look/listen.

The Agora amp is more life like in feel and response to me also.

The odd part is the tone stack is so different from the amp and HX model at the similar setting. I am not saying it IS the tone stack, but something is injecting mids.

 

[GLiDE-BPM]

I must be weird because I get great tone and feel out of all the Agoura models by doing what I do with my two Fractal boxes... Tweak them to what I love at gig volumes and move to the next one.

I'm able to do the same thing with HX amp models on Stadium as well.

I've done the same thing with the amp models I use in Fractal Axe FX III and FM9.

On any of the modelers, I run post speaker cab 10 band or Mesa style graphic EQ's for final dial in after each model's amp controls have been dialed in as close as possible!

No, all models don't necessarily float my boat just like with real tone amps.

 

[DG80]

It's too late for 1.2

 

[banned]

It's too late for 1.2, but the team will investigate the 5153 soon.

What's interesting is that so many people in our A/B/X listening tests called Agoura less "synthetic" (and IIRC, "less homogenous") than the usual suspects, including the most popular box on this forum. Still, we'll take another look/listen.

DI, I think the team should look at more than the 5153 - some of these traits are noticeable across multiple amps.

 

[HotRats]

I was barley a teenager, as well. Also hops.

I have no idea what this joke is about.

 

[mbenigni]

I have no idea what this joke is about.

It’s about beer. It’s always about beer.

 

[EOengineer]

DI, I think the team should look at more than the 5153 - some of these traits are noticeable across multiple amps.

I’m not trying to be a dick, but do you feel like this is an actionable contribution? If you were the recipient, would you be able to negotiate dropping other priorities and pivoting your engineers and devs to take this goose chase on over some other important feature based on this?

 

[mikah912]

I’m not trying to be a dick, but do you feel like this is an actionable contribution? If you were the recipient, would you be able to negotiate dropping other priorities and pivoting your engineers and devs to take this goose chase on over some other important feature based on this?

He's actually returned his from what I understand, so I'm not sure he could give granular feedback even if he wanted to. Anything he says now is going off of memory from a brief period of ownership.

 

[EOengineer]

He's actually returned his from what I understand, so I'm not sure he could give granular feedback even if he wanted to. Anything he says now is going off of memory from a brief period of ownership.

Yeah. I mean it’s not really my place to gate keep so I’ll shut up about it. To his credit he uploaded some audio to demonstrate what he was hearing, which is helpful.

I’m hoping we can focus on actual measurable tangibles - and I’ll try to contribute to that at some point soon as well.

A thread full of “shit sounds weird” isn’t gonna go anywhere.

 

[HotRats]

I have no idea what this joke is about.

Had to Google it and to find out it I've misspelled a foreign language word.

Anyway, cheers mate!