Line 6 Helix Stadium Talk

[Lysander]

WTF is a LUFS

"Loudness Units Full Scale". It's a measurement of the perceived overall loudness of an audio signal.

 

[ejecta]

LATNECY UNDER FRICKIN' SOUND

My latency is real short under my wife’s f’n sound.

 

[LP59]

tl;dr LUFS on null deltas is a very flawed way to compare profilers.

As DLC86 says, you'd have to intentionally contrive a test result to get a test that comes out with significantly flawed results. If you have a case like that, you won't need a null test...it will obviously sound way off even before you do the test .

 

[Chocol8]

The biggest issue with a null test is it only tells you how the modelers do with the VERY specific input used in the test. Leo's inputs are not at all representative of the complete range of frequencies, levels, attacks and dynamics etc that a guitar, guitarist and effects chain can produce.

So, you basically get a single number that represents a poorly weighted average of a few tiny microscopic bits of the whole picture. Completely useless, but I guess it seems scientific and it's a lot easier to digest a simple number than something more representative of the complex truth.

 

[LP59]

Agree. Sorry, I didn't mean to divert the discussion to null tests. I was only asking about latency.

 

[SilentJ]

The biggest issue with a null test is it only tells you how the modelers do with the VERY specific input used in the test. Leo's inputs are not at all representative of the complete range of frequencies, levels, attacks and dynamics etc that a guitar, guitarist and effects chain can produce.

So, you basically get a single number that represents a poorly weighted average of a few tiny microscopic bits of the whole picture. Completely useless, but I guess it seems scientific and it's a lot easier to digest a simple number than something more representative of the complex truth.

Yes. Null tests are one tool, but they're a really poor indicator of how "good" a profile, capture, etc. is. They can only tell you one thing - if the two signals are identical. If they're not identical, they don't give a real useful measure of how different they are or, more importantly, how that score correlates to a difference in the sound. I can easily take a source file and process it in two different and reasonable ways. One will give a much better null test score, but will sound much further from the source material than the one with a "worse" null score.

 

[JiveTurkey]

How do you tell what commands are assigned to a switch? I see the label of multiple but nowhere I can see on hardware or editor shows the actual assigned items.

 

[Alex Kenivel]

How do you tell what commands are assigned to a switch? I see the label of multiple but nowhere I can see on hardware or editor shows the actual assigned items.

Just touch it.

TWSS

 

[GLiDE-BPM]

You guys tempted me against my better judgement to go look at that thread. Having a Stadium and having played it and, albeit a sign of perhaps too high an opinion of my opinion, have determined that for my needs it's an upgrade more/less across the board, meaning I had no interest in measured latency, so I'd ignored it. It was every bit the tilt at a windmill I expected. I suppose latency might matter for someone whose needs dictate attaching a bunch of stuff via the loops, but I don't think whatever tiny latency reduction some random dude expects based on principle is going to be the difference maker very often. For my own sanity, whenever someone's argument stands on nothing but "in principle", it's not worth pursuing. Any other view on the matter will get brushed off, "But, in principle..." no matter how relevant or sensible it is.

I'm still having mini nightmares about that latency thread...... aCk!!!

 

[AlbertA]

My latency is real short under my wife’s f’n sound.

 

[mavrick102000]

My latency is real short under my wife’s f’n sound.

 

[Chocol8]

Yes. Null tests are one tool, but they're a really poor indicator of how "good" a profile, capture, etc. is. They can only tell you one thing - if the two signals are identical. If they're not identical, they don't give a real useful measure of how different they are or, more importantly, how that score correlates to a difference in the sound. I can easily take a source file and process it in two different and reasonable ways. One will give a much better null test score, but will sound much further from the source material than the one with a "worse" null score.

Well, sorta, but what you are talking about is the way Leo does a null test, which is complete crap. A properly done null test would not spit out a simple but useless LUFS number, but instead, highlight the specific areas that do not null. If you do it right you can figure out what is and is not modeled well, including by frequency, level input, transients, etc. Of course results like that require the person running the test know what they are doing to isolate the and highlight the differences, and the people looking at the results would need to know what they are looking at and how that translates into something useful to make a decision on. That is NOT Leo or TOP!!!

 

[Mongillo19]

ENOUGH OF THE NULL TEST TALK. What do we think the three new amps are?

 

[[Nathan]]

I might eat my words down the road but this is why I don’t like to get caught up in spec sheets with this stuff. Some of it is good to know at a glance but it doesn’t mean much in the grand scheme.

I’ve done plenty of captures where something would null worse but feel good/better to play. Some guitar plugins people claim have lower latency than the rest but they feel a bit sluggish compared to a NDSP plugin etc etc.

It reminds me of comparing camera brands/models by looking at megapixels, sensor size and how many shots per second. Like yeah that stuff is cool to know at a glance but the quality of the raw file will be different, color science, camera ergonomics etc. I mean it’s even worse because at least these are from the manufacturer and aren’t randomally measured by enthusiasts.

 

[SilentJ]

ENOUGH OF THE NULL TEST TALK. What do we think the three new amps are?

View attachment 55807

I'm not allowed to be part of that speculation, so I'll back out of this one.

 

[GLiDE-BPM]

If I have to listen to Leo Gibson for more than 2 or 3 minutes, my brain shuts down and reboots in about 1 minute and 3 seconds......

 

[Blix]

If I have to listen to Leo Gibson for more than 2 or 3 minutes, my brain shuts down and reboots in about 1 minute and 3 seconds......

Can't stand hearing him talk-e.

 

[EOengineer]

ENOUGH OF THE NULL TEST TALK. What do we think the three new amps are?

View attachment 55807

Where did you get this image?

If I had to guess I’d say the white one to the right if the 2203 is almost certainly a Jubilee. The amp to the left of the AC30 could possibly be a Super Reverb or perhaps a tweed or brown Princeton or deluxe.

I’m not sure about the third amp.

 

[Mongillo19]

Where did you get this image?

If I had to guess I’d say the white one to the right if the 2203 is almost certainly a Jubilee. The amp to the left of the AC30 could possibly be a Super Reverb or perhaps a tweed or brown Princeton or deluxe.

I’m not sure about the third amp.

I guess it was on a Rhett video where he had them blurred out? Idk I got it from TGP so take that as you will

 

[LP59]

If I have to listen to Leo Gibson for more than 2 or 3 minutes, my brain shuts down and reboots in about 1 minute and 3 seconds......

If we're just talking about speaking style, I'll take Leo over Cordy every day of the week and twice on Sunday. I've watched JNC videos that are 20 minutes long, yet he never finished a single sentence. He just drones on and on with endless parenthetical diversions without ever completing a thought. One of these days he'll actually say something in one of his videos, but he hasn't yet.