Line 6 Helix Stadium Talk

[EOengineer]

Proxy is going to be that donor program.

Not for folks looking for fully adjustable amp models. I’m all for capture tech, I’m active in Tonex circles, but we’re talking about different things here.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Anyone fancy testing the poweramp impedance stuff? The cabs now affect the power amp response. Maybe some can tap the amp signal before the cab so we can hear just how the amp is changing in tone?

What poweramp response does each amp use with external IR’s? Might that be a factor in some of the demos? Similarly with the Pre/Post Z control, it would be cool to see how that affects things in more depth.

Has every amp been modelled connected to every cab in Line 6’s collection? or have they been modelled individually and then the result is predicted rather than measured? What about amps and cabs that have limited options for matching impedances?

Where are the speaker impedance settings adjusted at? Is that user facing yet?

 

[EOengineer]

Anyone fancy testing the poweramp impedance stuff? The cabs now affect the power amp response. Maybe some can tap the amp signal before the cab so we can hear just how the amp is changing in tone?

What poweramp response does each amp use with external IR’s? Might that be a factor in some of the demos? Similarly with the Pre/Post Z control, it would be cool to see how that affects things in more depth.

Has every amp been modelled connected to every cab in Line 6’s collection? or have they been modelled individually and then the result is predicted rather than measured? What about amps and cabs that have limited options for matching impedances?

These are all great questions I’d love to know the answer to as well, especially regarding the impedance curve interactions. It had occurred to me during Jon’s Rev video that his IR felt dynamically flat to me compared to some of the cabs as he cycled through. I’m interested to know how those curves are adjusted when using impulse responses. Or aren’t they?

 

[DanRad]

Right, but I'm saying that's the problem. This practice of consolidating all the discussions for a modeler into a single thread with hundreds of pages IMHO makes the discussions hard to follow.

Do we need a new thread discussing the best approach for threads?

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Where are the speaker impedance settings adjusted at? Is that user facing yet?

AFAIK you can adjust a parameter that affects where the NFB is reintroduced into an amp, but it’s not something I would typically even think about. I’m not sure if there is any way to increase or decrease NFB globally, or to adjust resonant peaks in the SIC.

I’m curious what is available to adjust and what effect they have. My quick search of the manual didn’t really reveal much, and I’d rather not rely on ChatGPT for explaining NFB locations (TLDR of it was to do with different poweramp topolgies rather than something you’d tinker with).

 

[AZG]

Im reluctant to develop any strong Agoura opinions until I’ve spent at least the weekend with my XL,

^^This^^
I don’t put too much weight on video sound samples. Nice for getting a taste, but I won’t know how good or bad I think it is until I have it sitting next to my FM3 and I can a/b between them for a few days or weeks.

 

[Orvillain]

I definitely want to shoot the Stadium out against my Axe3, and some of my real amps. Even if I don't have exactly those amps, it's still quite easy to get a sense of chunk and 3D-ness and clarity, compared to the real thing; either through a loadbox, or through a cab with my Neve DI tapping the signal between the head and cab.

I'm hearing a lot of stuff I like from these Stadium demos, and a few tones that I'm not sure about. The proof for me will be having one in my hands for a week or so.

What I will say is, there were many tones on Helix I was happy with. Revv Red was my favourite amp model. Revv Purple my second favourite. I didn't really dig any of the Marshalls, and I didn't dig the Recto. Hopefully Agoura rectifies that ... pun intended.

Another thing I will say is, I quite often plug into my Axe FX III and don't like what I'm hearing, and it takes a long time for me to find something I'm happy with in that moment. Then a week later I plug in, load up the preset, and don't like it.

I think there's an element to modelling and home studio chicanery in general that encourages a kind of oscillatory favourtism. I don't really ever feel that way about physical amps in a room. The volume, the punch, the trouser flap, it all adds to it.

In effect, they're just really different things to me.

 

[holoholo]

Every time we get a new stadium thread an angel gets its wings

 

[synthpenguin]

Where are the speaker impedance settings adjusted at? Is that user facing yet?

Has Line 6 ever confirmed that it would be user facing?

This is the closest a quick search found to it being addressed:

I guess my biggest concern about next gen is Line 6's approach to modeling and updating existing models, what I see in the promo material is they didn't update the same old parameter slider with Sag, bias, hum, ripple... these parameters are from the Pod HD era.
What about changing virtual tubes, impedance curves, output tap mismatching, lower mains voltage, etc. things I can do with a real amp, I would have wanted something that is a little more evolved than a Pod HD++ or a Helix+.

Short answer: Our customers have different wants and needs than Fractal customers. And remember—you're looking at what we've chosen to divulge and no more. Complaining about what you think it might not have might be considered... premature.

As far as I can tell, all that has been confirmed is the cab block communicating a SIC back to the amp block, so perhaps a parameter will be added to that block for when using IRs, but I'm not sure that they've ever outright said that.

 

[Jarick]

Following up on my question about sound, John Cordy had a good comparison that to me sounded like the Agoura amp models were smoother where the Helix ones were brighter bordering on harsh.

Jon's high gain video from this morning sounded great with all of the different cabs, again pretty smooth sounding to my ears.

Do we need a new thread discussing the best approach for threads?

Maybe in the off topic section. I actually think this is a really good approach, rather than having 15,000 posts talking about something that isn't released to actually have a new thread talking about the product post launch.

I don't like the idea of sub forums for different brands or products. I wouldn't want to flip through 20 different subforums to see if anyone's talking about anything new and I'm sure the mods wouldn't want to deal with that either.

 

[Orvillain]

So, for anybody who has doubts on whether or not Helix Stadium can chug...

Honestly though, most of this sounded great to me.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Honestly though, most of this sounded great to me.

I saw Badonk in the preset name and honestly; I am not interested in an original amp model that's 27 years old. No matter how forum famous it is


On a positive note; got my L6 credentials (and body) ready for that first update

 

[2dor]

AFAIK you can adjust a parameter that affects where the NFB is reintroduced into an amp, but it’s not something I would typically even think about. I’m not sure if there is any way to increase or decrease NFB globally, or to adjust resonant peaks in the SIC.

I’m curious what is available to adjust and what effect they have. My quick search of the manual didn’t really reveal much, and I’d rather not rely on ChatGPT for explaining NFB locations (TLDR of it was to do with different poweramp topolgies rather than something you’d tinker with).

It ought to be an amp block setting I guess especially if you're running it through a solid state amp & into a real cab.

They could set it in the cab block too I guess but the block would need a "defeat microphone" switch ot some similar trick for folks using a real cab... downside is you're losing a block on the grid if the cab block does it.

 

[mikah912]

I saw Badonk in the preset name and honestly; I am not interested in an original amp model that's 27 years old. No matter how forum famous it is

Are you looking at the latest video? It's all REVV Genereator Red. No Badonk anywhere in sight.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Are you looking at the latest video? It's all REVV Genereator Red. No Badonk anywhere in sight.

The preset he is playing at the beginning (at 7 or 8 seconds) is called Badonkulous.

 

[banned]

I think there's an element to modelling and home studio chicanery in general that encourages a kind of oscillatory favourtism. I don't really ever feel that way about physical amps in a room. The volume, the punch, the trouser flap, it all adds to it.

This is very true of real amps as well. There are days when it sounds absolutely amazing and you can't imagine it ever being better, and then a few days later, you're like - what is this sorry excuse for a tone? How is it so bright (or so dark)? What happened here? Did the voltage change? Am I using a different cable?

This situation has played out many times in the past for me. The worst offender was my Mesa Mark 2C+ in this regard.

I find modelers far more consistent in this regard - at least you KNOW in the back of your mind that it's not the modeler moving on you, because it can't. It's just your ears.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Every time we get a new stadium thread an angel gets its wings

You can only talk about this in the Line 6 Stadium Angel Gets It's Wings thread

 

[TheTrueZoltan!]

Anyone fancy testing the poweramp impedance stuff? The cabs now affect the power amp response. Maybe some can tap the amp signal before the cab so we can hear just how the amp is changing in tone?

What poweramp response does each amp use with external IR’s? Might that be a factor in some of the demos? Similarly with the Pre/Post Z control, it would be cool to see how that affects things in more depth.

Has every amp been modelled connected to every cab in Line 6’s collection? or have they been modelled individually and then the result is predicted rather than measured? What about amps and cabs that have limited options for matching impedances?

^^ this

The power amp / cab impedance curve modeling is still a mystery. TBH I would have loved to see an option to select different impedance curves when using IRs.

 

[synthpenguin]

I love what I'm hearing from most of the Stadium demoes I've heard (which, granted, isn't tooo many yet!). I don't like how the Revv sounds and I guess I can hear what people are describing.. but then I don't like how the actual amp sounds much either? Those just aren't my type of sounds, and I feel like I've heard people describing the actual Revv in these terms (including "sounds digital" lol) for a while.

As I've publicly laboured over here, I've been looking at an FM9 for a minute now. These Stadium demoes have made me hesitate even more though haha. I don't think any of the amp sounds I'm hearing are better than Fractal, and I know I'd miss some of the flexibility I'm looking forward to from an FM9, but damn the Stadium just looks so FUN to use, which is half the battle. That Yvette Young video really got me because that AC sounded fantastic, and everything just looked so fun and dynamic and immediate.

After spending early this morning with my Stomp and the FX, I'm honestly leaning back to Fractal again for various reasons, but the fun factor + my confidence in Line 6's longterm support (and questions about current gen Fractal's longevity) has me very tempted.

I need to listen to the WT demoes today (hopefully someone has good Champ and Bassman demoes?).

 

[mikah912]

The preset he is playing at the beginning (at 7 or 8 seconds) is called Badonkulous.

Ah.....I think I looked away when that appeared onscreen, but that goes away super quickly. 99 percent of the video is the REVV.

And to be fair, he created that factory preset with the Badonk (and it's a great amp, and also not 27 years old).

The Agoura high-gain options for right now are basically limited to 4 amps, and modern YouTubers keep spamming the 5153 and REVV to the detriment of the Soldano and Bogner Ecstasy,