Line 6 Helix Stadium Talk

[mikah912]

Nope. I never returned it. I was outside my return period, so just decided to keep it and see where it goes. I was a big OG Helix user, so I'm certainly not hating for the sake of hating.

I wouldn't dismiss gripes that you've gone on at length about as "hating", but I do wonder why you haven't sold it. Life's too short to spend so much time on something that brings us angst. I don't see Line 6 revamping the modeling to be more in line with your tastes AND dropping a whole new slate of reverbs/delays that are more to your taste along with Proxy and the other improvememtns they're already working on in sort order.

Actually, I don't see why if reverbs and delays were "a big big thing" with you AND you were already intimately familiar with the Helix Floor ones AND you knew from the jump that they weren't launching with anything different....why buy it in the first place?

 

[Mooselake]

Every time I play it, I’m shocked at how good it feels to play,

I'm glad to hear someone else say this. Given the amount of criticism the Agoura models have received, I was beginning to doubt my ability to perceive both what I was hearing or the nebulous "feel" of it while playing.

I get (and can hear) the differences people point out in some cases. And it's fair for people to want a given amp model to sound just like an amp they have or have played. It's probably a cop out, but I approach it with the thought experiment of, "What would I think if [some amp manufacturer] produced a new version of [amp in question] and it sounded just like the Agoura model? Would I think it's a good amp, or a bad amp?"

I get why the answers to those questions aren't sufficient for a notable fraction of Stadium users, and I'm not intending to be dismissive of their observations and desires. The same things aren't as important to me, but that's on me.

I've got one preset I just can't seem to get away from. There's something about it that makes me want to just stand there and hit individual big chords and listen to them ring. I couldn't even tell you what about them fascinates me, it's like some sort of aural balm that just makes me smile. (I recognize the possibility that I've got Stage 4 fanboy-itis going on, because I do like all the Line 6 folks I've interacted with, even if they won't model a 4140 C&C to sate my curiosity. )

 

[Orvillain]

I wouldn't dismiss gripes that you've gone on at length about as "hating", but I do wonder why you haven't sold it. Life's too short to spend so much time on something that brings us angst. I don't see Line 6 revamping the modelinbg to be more in line with your tastes AND dropping a whole new slate of reverbs/delays that are more to your taste along with Proxy and the other improvememtns they're already working on in sort order.

Actually, I don't see why if reverbs and delays were "a big big thing" with you AND you were already intimately familiar with the Helix Floor ones AND you knew from the jump that they weren't launching with anything different....why buy it in the first place?

I've been asking myself those questions all morning.

 

[Deadpan]

I wouldn't dismiss gripes that you've gone on at length about as "hating", but I do wonder why you haven't sold it. Life's too short to spend so much time on something that brings us angst. I don't see Line 6 revamping the modeling to be more in line with your tastes AND dropping a whole new slate of reverbs/delays that are more to your taste along with Proxy and the other improvememtns they're already working on in sort order.

Actually, I don't see why if reverbs and delays were "a big big thing" with you AND you were already intimately familiar with the Helix Floor ones AND you knew from the jump that they weren't launching with anything different....why buy it in the first place?

I have a feeling there will be proxy too fill the gap of any effects one wants. Just a feeling.

 

[mikah912]

I have a feeling there will be proxy too fill the gap of any effects one wants. Just a feeling.

Well, capturing reverb with modulation isn't currently on the cards for anybody, much less Line 6, BUT deconvolution like the Hotone Verbera and other devices should be, I hope.

You pair that with a really robust suite of mods (I'm thinking stuff like Electro-Harmonix Freeze) in one block, and now you're cooking.

That being said, I think some of the Helix reverbs like the Glitz are objectively better, lusher and more musical on Stadium. On Helix, I grew to dislike the Glitz/Ganymede/etc. tier of reverbs and just stuck with the Dynamic ones for all of my ambient needs. On Stadium....they're better.

Not sure how, but they are.

 

[CakeEater]

I have a feeling there will be proxy too fill the gap of any effects one wants. Just a feeling.

Same, happy as I am with the Agoura amps, I really think having everything baked into a proxy: amp, cab, mics, room/early-reflections, all together will have a secret sauce or an authenticity to it that will make it exceptional.

 

[Southpaw-DD]

On Stadium....they're better.

I've always had an opinion that the Helix/HX had something going on that I didn't love even just routing through the DSP path with no blocks enabled and the input gate off. I briefly owned a ToneX and it didn't sound anywhere near as "amp like" if I ran it in an FX loop or in front of Helix Rack as a post-FX unit.

 

[MIJLOVER]

Nope. I never returned it. I was outside my return period, so just decided to keep it and see where it goes. I was a big OG Helix user, so I'm certainly not hating for the sake of hating.

Oh, I definitely didn’t mean to imply you were “hating” - plenty are (not on this forum) but you can tell they’ve never actually used the unit.

I think it’s one thing if you’re “hey, this sound and feels amazing but I’ve noticed there’s some high end that seems neutered on certain (or all) amps. I would like that to change” versus “I don’t like how this sounds”.

I probably enjoy these sounds more than if they were to somehow fix it to sound gross but accurately so - but warts and all is the name of the game, so I’d live with it

I almost considered returning mine, only because I actually quit the band I bought it for and felt it was somewhat of a luxury to use only at home when something like a AM4 could provably cover it fine for half the price. But then I turn it on and I can’t get myself to get rid of it. I know I’d regret it in a few weeks.

 

[Orvillain]

Oh, I definitely didn’t mean to imply you were “hating” - plenty are (not on this forum) but you can tell they’ve never actually used the unit.

I think it’s one thing if you’re “hey, this sound and feels amazing but I’ve noticed there’s some high end that seems neutered on certain (or all) amps. I would like that to change” versus “I don’t like how this sounds”.

I probably enjoy these sounds more than if they were to somehow fix it to sound gross but accurately so - but warts and all is the name of the game, so I’d live with it

I almost considered returning mine, only because I actually quit the band I bought it for and felt it was somewhat of a luxury to use only at home when something like a AM4 could provably cover it fine for half the price. But then I turn it on and I can’t get myself to get rid of it. I know I’d regret it in a few weeks.

Flip side of this, I just killed 40minutes writing riffs using Revv Red and a few effects, and it's like .... when you get it dialled in, it really can sound great!

 

[MIJLOVER]

I'm glad to hear someone else say this. Given the amount of criticism the Agoura models have received, I was beginning to doubt my ability to perceive both what I was hearing or the nebulous "feel" of it while playing.

I get (and can hear) the differences people point out in some cases. And it's fair for people to want a given amp model to sound just like an amp they have or have played. It's probably a cop out, but I approach it with the thought experiment of, "What would I think if [some amp manufacturer] produced a new version of [amp in question] and it sounded just like the Agoura model? Would I think it's a good amp, or a bad amp?"

I get why the answers to those questions aren't sufficient for a notable fraction of Stadium users, and I'm not intending to be dismissive of their observations and desires. The same things aren't as important to me, but that's on me.

I've got one preset I just can't seem to get away from. There's something about it that makes me want to just stand there and hit individual big chords and listen to them ring. I couldn't even tell you what about them fascinates me, it's like some sort of aural balm that just makes me smile. (I recognize the possibility that I've got Stage 4 fanboy-itis going on, because I do like all the Line 6 folks I've interacted with, even if they won't model a 4140 C&C to sate my curiosity. )

It’s always best to play the thing and make up your own mind, unless you know it doesn’t have the feature you’d want. People’s opinions are valid and interesting but you’re the one who has to live with the gear.

And from using tube amps for a couple of decades, the Agoura amps don’t just nail that tube feel. They nail the feel of a great tube amp. I got the same visceral feel as the first time I plugged into a Carol Ann. That sweet sweet compression/saggy/spongy thing is plain addictive

Not to say I haven’t noticed the much nor pronounced midrange and subdued high end compared to HX Amps.

But I think it’s fair to prefer Agoura while wanting any inaccuracies/bugs in the modeling implementation to be fixed.

Edit: forgot to add that while it seems there’s little hype around Stadium around here, Eric mentioned that it sold more than they predicted and prepared for (which was already a higher number than what Yamaha expected!), so there’s really no reason to feel like a weirdo for liking it

 

[SeeD]

I wouldn't dismiss gripes that you've gone on at length about as "hating", but I do wonder why you haven't sold it. Life's too short to spend so much time on something that brings us angst. I don't see Line 6 revamping the modeling to be more in line with your tastes AND dropping a whole new slate of reverbs/delays that are more to your taste along with Proxy and the other improvememtns they're already working on in sort order.

Actually, I don't see why if reverbs and delays were "a big big thing" with you AND you were already intimately familiar with the Helix Floor ones AND you knew from the jump that they weren't launching with anything different....why buy it in the first place?

No new Delays, Reverbs, Mods, Cabs at all in the new Flagship Stadium??

That`s not a big selling point

 

[Los-D]

No new Delays, Reverbs, Mods, Cabs at all in the new Flagship Stadium??

That`s not a big selling point

S O O N

(Come on @SeeD , you out of all people should know that )

J/k of course

 

[Chocol8]

No new Delays, Reverbs, Mods, Cabs at all in the new Flagship Stadium??

That`s not a big selling point

That's not at all what they were trying to sell. Stadium is all about UE, Showcase, Agora, and soon Proxy. Effects and cabs will come later, and probably aren't going to sell a lot of units either way.

 

[SeeD]

S O O N

(Come on @SeeD , you out of all people should know that )

J/k of course

Fractal SOON or Neural SOON
If it`s the latter, then ok

Line 6 said that maybe Proxy could do captures of Reverbs and Delays also.. that would be cool!

 

[Los-D]

Fractal SOON or Neural SOON
If it`s the latter, then ok

Line 6 said that maybe Proxy could do captures of Reverbs and Delays also.. that would be cool!

The latter, lol. And yes, Proxy is the wildcard for me here.

 

[SeeD]

I hope Proxy is bad ass!

 

[banned]

I thought I'd write up some thoughts I have on Stadium.

So at the moment.... a very buggy experience overall. Like the unit, almost every time I turn it on, somehow finds a way to log me out of my account, even when my WIFI is available and working.

The Agoura stuff is not blowing me away. I can get good enough sounds, but the amps aren't setup in a realistic enough way and so a lot of the UX benefits are immediately lost in trying to find the right control. It isn't a huge deal of course. But there's a lot of death by a thousand cuts stuff going on; which is essentially the TLDR of my whole experience.

I think there's something bloated and over saturated going on in the modelling somewhere. I'm not sure if it is poweramp related or not. But I feel like there's a distinct lack of sheen, fizz, clarity, brightness, aggressive frequencies are smoothed out in favour of a more instant gratification sound; and for me, I want as RAW as possible, as close to the real amp experience as possible. I've got the skills to smooth it out if I really want it.

Sometimes hype can help restore those frequencies, but it also introduces other artifacts that I'm not always keen on.

No new delays, or improvements to the existing ones. No new reverbs. This is a big big thing for me. I simply cannot and will not go back to a world where I just "made do" with the legacy Hall, or Ganymede, or whatever. Those algorithms are simply not a patch on even your bog standard 2003 made Boss RV-5. And when you compare to the BigSky? The MercuryX? The MXR reverb? No contest really. I can find sounds on those pedals that simply don't exist on Stadium or Helix. Hell.... a lot of the time they can't be found on Axe FX III either !

A lot of effort has gone into the showcase feature, and I'm glad to see that is happening for the people who want that functionality. But for me? Until I decide to take my Sloganyear stuff onto the stage, it just isn't a relevant part of the experience. Aside from testing a few things on it, I've barely touched it.

I'm very happy about the hardware quality. It seems really top notch to me. Best in class touchscreen. The I/O is fantastic, and easier to understand how to access everything than the Axe FX 3 is - I want mono, I just select the mono thing. The signal to noise ratio is very very good, and the overall sound quality is much better than the Quad Cortex - significantly so.

But I do kind of feel more like an early adopter on this unit than I ever did with the Quad Cortex. Which given the pedigree we're dealing with, is pretty damn concerning. If the regular Stadium Floor had kept the same I/O, I would have waited for that unit... and then maybe wouldn't feel so perturbed by my purchase.

My overall thought process lately has been along the lines of, maybe multi's aren't for me. Because I'm never satisfied. So a bunch of this is totally a "me problem" and not necessarily reflective of the actual objective reality. Totally possible that at this point my expectations are cranked far too high, and that I'm really spoilt. But I wanted this thing to absolutely kick immense amounts of arse, right out of the gate, and it's just sorta slapping the fat mans cheeks a bit.

Ultimately, I don't actually know why I bought this thing right now. GAS, sure. But I had dreams about going back to a Helix style device for my main board command centre, and it isn't there for me yet. I'm not entirely convinced it will be.

Fully agree.

This 100% resonates with me -

"I think there's something bloated and over saturated going on in the modelling somewhere. I'm not sure if it is poweramp related or not. But I feel like there's a distinct lack of sheen, fizz, clarity, brightness, aggressive frequencies are smoothed out in favour of a more instant gratification sound; and for me, I want as RAW as possible, as close to the real amp experience as possible. I've got the skills to smooth it out if I really want it."

I too want the amp modeling to be as 'raw' as possible - as you said, I can always tweak things to my taste - it's not that hard.

In addition to the general statement about there being some fuzzy bloating with higher gain tones - I also feel like some of the models like the Plexi have something fundamentally wrong. You notice it when hitting the strings hard. It collapses too much and goes into a bad fizz.

That said there are some fantastic models including Bassman, Agoura 2203 etc. If I remember, I think I also liked the Bogner XTC, the Hiwatt, the Superbass.

The Vox AC30 and DR seem to be very much in the right ballpark but missing some high-end frequencies when played through a real guitar cab which takes away from the realism.

Hopefully, they will get all of this right over time. Modeling aside, fantastic product.

 

[JiveTurkey]

No new Delays, Reverbs, Mods, Cabs at all in the new Flagship Stadium??

That`s not a big selling point

This weird passive aggressive thing you do where you try to wipe the poop stink of your own chosen product off on others then play naive about it is sad. Do better.

 

[SeeD]

This weird passive aggressive thing you do where you try to wipe the poop stink of your own chosen product off on others then play naive about it is sad. Do better.

I would wait and then see what they add. But buying a new flagship unit, I would guess that there was some new sounds in there. Like look.. it can now do this and this. Is that wierd to think?

 

[mikah912]

No new Delays, Reverbs, Mods, Cabs at all in the new Flagship Stadium??

That`s not a big selling point

Being that they established this clearly and transparently around the launch period in June, and we're now 8 months past that....not sure why this is still a revelation for some?

I hope it makes people re-evaluate the slate of Helix reverbs, delays and such that they missed the first time around because there's some great stuff in there.