Line 6 Helix Stadium Talk

[Orvillain]

My golden ears remain undefeated.

 

[Karl Houseknecht]

I've lost the appetite for creating A/B shootouts

Oh, I don't like doing it either. I've only been comparing them to see if I can get what I like in the Fractal world out of the Stadium. And yep, I can. The fact that they've been SO close is gravy.

I get it if folks like JiveTurkey need "a range of" Mesa Marks or "a range of" modded Marshalls

I sincerely hope that will come to Stadium over time. The IIC+ isn't my favorite Mark. That would be the IV. And I do want an AC20, BE-100, a Dirty Shirley, and (please, please, please) a Splawn Quick Rod. Sure, I can pick a current Agoura model and make music, but those are real amps and models that I love and use, and Fractal has them.

 

[Orvillain]

There is a kind of inherent lack of sizzle, fizz, and Kerrrrrannnnggggg in Stadium. I don't like to admit it, but I hear a difference when comparing Stadium to Fractal, and also when comparing Stadium to my real amp.

I can make my real amps sound ugly in a fucking cool way. I can't make Stadium sound ugly in a cool way.

I don't think it sounds bad. AT ALL. That really isn't what I am saying. But there's a distinct difference that jumps out in those clips @Karl Houseknecht and if you cannot hear it, more power to you. Keep enjoying your gear.

 

[mikah912]

I sincerely hope that will come to Stadium over time. The IIC+ isn't my favorite Mark. That would be the IV. And I do want an AC20, BE-100, a Dirty Shirley, and (please, please, please) a Splawn Quick Rod. Sure, I can pick a current Agoura model and make music, but those are real amps and models that I love and use, and Fractal has them.

To be clear, I'm not waving off further Agoura models at all. Everybody has real life faves, and I sincerely hope Line 6 taps as many of those as possible. I'm glad that they're not looking at Proxy as the main vehicle for achieving that, and have plans for Agoura-fying the vast, vast majority of existing HX amps (all of which they own except for two).

They've also said they want to get new stuff in there, and this most recent firmware was a perfect example. The BE100 is a virtual lock, I figure. Morgan AC20 would be sweet and I cosign that. I liked the Splawn QuickRod on Fractal for sure (never tried a real one), but that might be a tougher one to convince them to acquire.

For what it's worth, you have my +1 on it. (Paging @Digital Igloo)

 

[JiveTurkey]

I can't make Stadium sound ugly

I can. Apparently

 

[dk_ace]

I quit A/Bing amp stuff a while back. I could get sounds out of Helix that I was 100% happy with for the sounds I use most (clean, crunchy fender, crunchy Marshall, occasionally a Vox, and a couple of flavors of high gain). That’s all I really cared about. I wasn’t obsessing over whether it could indistinguishably nail a specific amp, because I used helix in situations where I wasn’t going to use an amp anyway.

I think the fractal modeling is a little better than the latest HX stuff, and a lot better than some of the earlier HX stuff.

The agoura clips I’ve heard sound like they’ve improved the things I thought were less than ideal in the HX stuff, so I’m sure I could be happy with it.

I’m not saying that anyone who is hung up on the amp modeling is “wrong” - we all have our thing.

D

 

[Karl Houseknecht]

I liked the Splawn QuickRod on Fractal for sure (never tried a real one), but that might be a tougher one to convince them to acquire.

I've owned two different Quick Rod's and two different Street Rods. They are kinda one trick ponies, but they do an amazing trick. In many ways I like them better than the BE.

 

[paisleywookiee]

Live and let live?

Block and let block. There’s a reason a lot of people here ignore him, and he’s long since banned elsewhere. He’s fucking annoying. Better just not to interact with the him.

I can handle discussion that’s repetitive, but when it’s the same myopic bullshit over and over, with a condescending douche tone, it gets old.

 

[TubeStack]

condescending douche tone

Great name for a plugin!

 

[EOengineer]

In other news, I'm reading the Mesa IIC+ manual, pretending I own the actual amp

Honestly a really good idea for anyone trying to wrap their head around the amp. From the few minutes I’ve played with the Stadium IIC+, L6 seemed to nail all the knob and switch interaction. You can pretty much treat the model just like the real amp.

https://mesa-boogie.imgix.net/135420-MarkIICplus_241127.pdf

 

[GTR37]

I've owned two different Quick Rod's and two different Street Rods. They are kinda one trick ponies, but they do an amazing trick. In many ways I like them better than the BE.

It’s actually one of my favs in the Axe right now , I won’t say it totally dethrones a JVM orange
But man it is good your preset that you sent to have pimped sounded great
And Marcos factory preset w a couple of tweaks is killer

 

[mikah912]

I've owned two different Quick Rod's and two different Street Rods. They are kinda one trick ponies, but they do an amazing trick. In many ways I like them better than the BE.

Funny, Splawn seems to position it and its "gears" much the same as Marshall does the various channels of the JVM410: They both describe them as Hot-rodded Plexi > Hot-rodded 800 > Super Hot-Rodded 800 and so on.....

 

[GTR37]

Funny, Splawn seems to position it and its "gears" much the same as Marshall does the various channels of the JVM410: They both describe them as Hot-rodded Plexi > Hot-rodded 800 > Super Hot-Rodded 800 and so on.....

I would say they are similar for sure
With the Splawn maybe a bit of a dryer more percussive distortion the plate stack vs cathode
The Marshall can be a bit more saturated especially in the red
I believe the Splawn in OD2 actually does bring in a CF for more compression

 

[Karl Houseknecht]

Funny, Splawn seems to position it and its "gears" much the same as Marshall does the various channels of the JVM410: They both describe them as Hot-rodded Plexi > Hot-rodded 800 > Super Hot-Rodded 800 and so on.....

Sorta, kinda. I stick with 1st gear mostly. The whole amp is a hot rodded 800 (with a blackface type clean channel). Gears 2 and 3 have way too much low end for my tastes. But 1st gear and OD1 and OD2 are amazing.

 

[Karl Houseknecht]

It’s actually one of my favs in the Axe right now , I won’t say it totally dethrones a JVM orange
But man it is good your preset that you sent to have pimped sounded great

I used that real amp and that model extensively with a classic/hard rock band. It is very familiar territory.

 

[Elf]

A = Agoura
B = Fractal

Thanks for doing this very informative!

 

[Deadpan]

Don't know why you include the Jubilee. I frickin' love that amp model. Got nothing but great results from day one, and I've heard nothing but compliments on my tones with it both last weekend's gig and in the clip I shared here.

I like the model.

But, when i reamped my real amp at the same settings I had quite a different sound between the Stadium and the real amp.

I need to look at it more but I feel there is something in the master volume that doesn't match.

 

[AZG]

I've now had the Stadium for over a month and I am closing in fast on having to make a decision if the Stadium stays, gets returned, or I keep it a bit longer and deal with the risks of selling used? At the moment I gyrate between days I love it and want to keep it to days I like the FM3 more. Not the clear cut win I was hoping for. I usually try to stick with a one in one out policy for my main rig, but as of now I'm not sure... I'm guessing others are also nearing the end of their return window and I'm wondering what others are going to do?

Here are my current thoughts about the Stadium.

• Pros
  • UI: Unquestionably the best UI I have used on a modeler. I have owned Fractal, Helix, QC, and Headrush devices. No experience with the TMP. The screen is clear and touch response is nearly iPhone level.
  • OLED scribble strips are more readable than the backlit LCD scribble strips on Fractal, although I've not used the MK II devices with bigger scribble strips.
  • Amp Tones: There are a few models I actually like more on Stadium than my FM3 when doing a direct comparison using a ABY foot switch (Revv, Bogner and Vox), while others I have no strong preference and others I like less (Marshall and Mesa). I also really like having more of the channels and switches built into a single model (Revv Purple for example) vs being split apart into separate models like Fractal does. Unfortunately, Revv, 5153, etc. must still be separate models for blue/red and purple/red, etc.
  • Effects: Some of the effects are really great and as good or better than the equivalent found on Fractal.
• Neutral
  • Screen size: I feel like the unit is bigger than it needs to be due to screen size. I think a wide screen the same width as the current screen, but an inch or so less tall would have been nearly as usable while allowing for a smaller unit.
  • Focus View: For all intents and purposes it is 5 block presets with inbetween settings. I love the idea of blocks having presets built into the unit. But I would be just as happy with a list of 5+ block presets to get me started and give me ideas.
  • Hype knob: Sometimes I like a little, but most of the time I don't like what it does and don't use it.
  • Showcase: I haven't found a use for this yet, so no opinion.
• Cons
  • No channels in blocks: This missing feature really reduces the amount of DSP available the way I use snapshots/scenes. I commonly set up two snapshots for cleans, often something like a double reverb with matching cab. Two crunch snapshots with something like a 5153 blue or Mesa yellow with matching cab. Two plus lead snapshots with something like a 5153 red or Mesa red with matching cab. With Fractal this only requires one amp block and one cab block. With the Stadium it requires 3x3 to do the same thing. In my testing this can eat up nearly 75% of available DSP when using Stadiums new amps.
  • DSP limitations are more apparent than I would expect from a next generation modeler. But as previously mentioned, I chalk this up to not having block channels.
  • Foot switch flexibility: the foot switching is not nearly as flexible as Fractal.
  • Limited number or amp models. In the occurrences where I preferred a model on the Stadium, Vox AC30 for example, I can often find an alternative model I like even more in the Fractal. In this case I preferred the Morgan AC20 over the Stadium AC30, and I still have a Matchless on the Fractal to try.
  • Speaker Impedance Curve: SIC implementation is okay with just one amp or cab. Use more than one amp or an IR and it gets really wonky or just downright bad. Fractal handles SIC much better.
  • Computer Editor: I'm glad it exists as I use it a lot. But definitely prefer Axe Edit.
  • Effects: effects earn a place on the pros and cons list. While some sound great, others don't sound as good to me or are just missing compared to FM3.
  • Amps: another that earns a place on both the pros and cons lists. Some amp models I like less than those in the Fractal.
  • Bugs: Lock ups, loss of sound without reboot, etc. I'm sure they will get it sorted out, but there are more major bugs than expected.
  • Price: At twice the price of an FM3 and around 25% more than directly competing products, I guess I hoped for more.

I'm sure there are things I'm forgetting at the moment, but I think this is a pretty complete list. So what have other Stadium users decided?

Well, it's done. Return label printed and I will box and return in the next few days.

Stadium is really nice, but when I think of getting rid of the Stadium or FM3, the FM3 is the one I think I will miss more. It just has so many more tonal options, and sounding just as good and costing half is much sure doesn't hurt. Maybe I will revisit Stadium in the future if there are some really compelling updates. For the time being I will be content sitting on the sidelines enjoying my FM3 and watching what Line 6, Fractal, and others do to advance their products. Rock on

 

[HotRats]

But there's a distinct difference that jumps out in those clips @Karl Houseknecht

I don't own a Stadium and I can't speak for the Agoura models in general, meaning you might be right about the new line6 modelling on other amps or even this amp with different settings.

But come on, there is no distinct difference that jumps out in those clips. That's an hyperbole.

There is a difference, a small one, that in the context of those clips, the only one we can judge, is really irrelevant.

 

[HotRats]

I've owned two different Quick Rod's and two different Street Rods. They are kinda one trick ponies, but they do an amazing trick. In many ways I like them better than the BE.

Had a Nitro years ago. I really liked that beast for the heavy tones I was looking for at the time.
Unfortunately the amp (bought used) had issues and had to let it go.

My Nitro had few biblical references written inside the amp, something that's apparently common in Splawn amps.

Always wanted to try a quick rod but never had a chance. They are not very popular here.