Line 6 Helix: Copy and Paste still broken

  • Is this a preset that was ever text-edited by you to modify it?
No
  • Are you 100% sure you don't have some presets that you manually text-edited with some kind of corruption that keeps propagating as you copy and paste to new presets?
I didn't text edit any of these as they were imported and modded after a full reset during the 3.60 update. HOWEVER, one of these was modded from a Fremen preset, and I wonder if maybe he edited it on a text editor.

The illegal values when modded in HX edit, vs legal values when modding them in Helix Native seems to be pointing at something, but I don't know what
 
No

I didn't text edit any of these as they were imported and modded after a full reset during the 3.60 update. HOWEVER, one of these was modded from a Fremen preset, and I wonder if maybe he edited it on a text editor.

The illegal values when modded in HX edit, vs legal values when modding them in Helix Native seems to be pointing at something, but I don't know what

"Illegal values" sounds like everything at 11 -> amp goes BOOM!
 
The illegal values when modded in HX edit, vs legal values when modding them in Helix Native seems to be pointing at something, but I don't know what
I don't know if you know anyone who lives locally to you with a Helix, but I do think you really need to try and find someone who does and get together to see if they are able replicate your issues literally side to side with your Helix.

I don't think posting here is going to help you much when several of us have tried to replicate your issues and been entirely unsuccessful in doing so.
 
I don't think posting here is going to help you much when several of us have tried to replicate your issues and been entirely unsuccessful in doing so.
I wouldn't go that far. Some value corruption was pointed out and enough info was fed to Line6 to where they were able to find and fix the bugs not so long ago (for example, the auto engage bugs from I think 3.15). If I see another Helix locally I would definitely like to check. I'm not sure how I could export the preset to check though ,as it seems to corrupt on save or export (preset, setlist and bundles all do it)
 
I wouldn't go that far. Some value corruption was pointed out and enough info was fed to Line6 to where they were able to find and fix the bugs not so long ago (for example, the auto engage bugs from I think 3.15).
I am referring to your most recent set of issues relating to parameter changes on snapshots when copy/pasting presets.

As far as I'm aware, no one was able to replicate these particular issues, and I've never seen them reported by anyone else elsewhere.

I'm not saying they don't exist, just that some of us spent some time trying to replicate them and were not successful.
 
I think swirly maple may be on to the text editor thing too...I'm going to pop open the very original presets from fremen and see what actual text values are stored. It only seems to happen on snapshot controlled parameters and now that I really think about it, the other presets I was having issues with, the original one that showed the compressor parameter corruption, was also originally a fremen preset.

Of course any illegal value, (for instance -15.0 for a parameter who's minimum value should be 0.0) should have been fixed on the preset rebuild function on the helix hardware.
 
Of course any illegal value, (for instance -15.0 for a parameter who's minimum value should be 0.0) should have been fixed on the preset rebuild function on the helix hardware.
If the hardware can't generate a preset with an "illegal" value, there's no reason to assume that a preset rebuild will "fix" it or even indicate that there is an error.

It might though! ;)
 
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Crappioca...the original fremen presets don;t seem to have any illegal values...I'll try and build from there from scratch and document the whole thing and maybe we can see where the errors creep in
 
Crappioca...the original fremen presets don;t seem to have any illegal values...I'll try and build from there from scratch and document the whole thing and maybe we can see where the errors creep in
While you're testing this stuff, make sure to unplug EVERYTHING from your Helix except the bare minimum needed to replicate the issue. That includes expression pedals, any MIDI cables, etc. Take every variable out of the equation except the Helix and HX Edit, and see if it still does it. If it does, you'll know it was unrelated to those things. If it doesn't, add other pieces back one by one until the issue happens again.

This also includes any other software you might be running on the computer hosting HX Edit. e.g., If you have any plugins, MIDI apps, etc. that can send messages over USB (or by any other means) to Helix, make sure all of those are disabled too.
 
This also includes any other software you might be running on the computer hosting HX Edit. e.g., If you have any plugins, MIDI apps, etc. that can send messages over USB (or by any other means) to Helix, make sure all of those are disabled too.
Oh damn I just had a shining moment of hope! I forgot I had installed a midi loopback demo on the desktop!

But then I checked and there was none on the laptop or MacBook that was also doing it.

I’ll have the expression pedals unplugged when I try to cause the fail. The expression pedals do not control the corrupted values but who knows if stuff plugged into the analog exp jacks could somehow break things.
 
Oh damn I just had a shining moment of hope! I forgot I had installed a midi loopback demo on the desktop!

But then I checked and there was none on the laptop or MacBook that was also doing it.
:rofl

I was able to replicate the behavior with the file you posted here ...sort of. Here's what's going on.

TL;DR:
Somehow, your original preset is corrupted. I have no idea how it got the values written into it that it has, but the values for the Chorus block's Speed are negative and invalid. The initial load-up value for Speed (which ignores Snapshot values) is 2.5, which causes it to look "normal" when you load it, but as soon as you try to interact with the Chorus block, such as copy/pasting, it loads the invalid stored Snapshot value. Since the value is negative, it reverts to 0 instead. Editing your preset and saving it with valid values for Speed causes it to work fine, and can be copy/pasted without any issues.

All the gory details:
In the original file you posted, we see these relevant pieces:

Code:
"Speed" : {
       "@controller" : 19,
       "@max" : 1.0,
       "@min" : 0.0,
       "@snapshot_disable" : false
      },

That's the snapshot controller assignment.

Then we see this:

Code:
    "block10" : {
     "@enabled" : true,
     "@model" : "HD2_Chorus",
     "@no_snapshot_bypass" : false,
     "@path" : 1,
     "@position" : 7,
     "@stereo" : true,
     "@type" : 0,
     "Depth" : 0.680,
     "Level" : 0.0,
     "Mix" : 0.20,
     "Predelay" : 0.320,
     "Speed" : 0.250,
     "Spread" : 0.80,
     "SyncSelect1" : 6,
     "TempoSync1" : false,
     "Tone" : 0.750,
     "WaveShape" : 2
    },

This is where the settings for the block are defined, when you first load it. Notice the "speed" value is 0.25 here, which corresponds to a speed value of 2.5 in the GUI. Thus, when you first load this preset, no matter which snapshot it loads into, the speed value will first be set to 2.5. (Important side note: this value *should* be identical to the value in the snapshot where you last saved the preset. I don't know of any way to get a different value here than what it stores in the snapshot definition, unless it's manually edited.)

So far, so good. Now we continue down the file, and see these values for the snapshot assignments:

Code:
         "Speed" : {
        "@fs_enabled" : false,
        "@value" : -15.0
       },
      
         "Speed" : {
        "@fs_enabled" : false,
        "@value" : -12.0
       },
      
         "Speed" : {
        "@fs_enabled" : false,
        "@value" : -12.0
       },
      
         "Speed" : {
        "@fs_enabled" : false,
        "@value" : -28.1174
       },
      
         "Speed" : {
        "@fs_enabled" : false,
        "@value" : -15.0
       },
      
         "Speed" : {
        "@fs_enabled" : false,
        "@value" : -15.0
       },
      
         "Speed" : {
        "@fs_enabled" : false,
        "@value" : -12.0
       },
      
         "Speed" : {
        "@fs_enabled" : false,
        "@value" : -15.0
       },

Every one of those is an illegal value for the Speed parameter, which should range from 0.0 to 1.0. This is why copy and paste is appearing not to work. It actually doesn't have anything to do with copy and paste. The problem is that the preset first loads with an allowed value of 0.25 (2.5 in the GUI), which is independent of the snapshot, and then as soon as you change the snapshot or try to do anything with the preset that accesses the stored value for the snapshot, it loads one of those illegal negative values. Instead of crashing and burning, it treats negative values as zero, causing every snapshot to show 0 if you change between the snapshots after loading the preset.

As a test, I edited your preset in HX Edit with the following values for speed in each successive snapshot:
0.0
1.4
2.8
4.2
5.6
7
8.4
10.0

And I then saved the preset to a new name. After opening this one in the text editor, we now see this:

Code:
 "Speed" : {
       "@controller" : 19,
       "@max" : 1.0,
       "@min" : 0.0,
       "@snapshot_disable" : false
      },

Code:
"block10" : {
     "@enabled" : true,
     "@model" : "HD2_Chorus",
     "@no_snapshot_bypass" : false,
     "@path" : 1,
     "@position" : 7,
     "@stereo" : true,
     "@type" : 0,
     "Depth" : 0.810,
     "Level" : 0.0,
     "Mix" : 0.50,
     "Predelay" : 0.320,
     "Speed" : 0.0,
     "Spread" : 0.80,
     "SyncSelect1" : 6,
     "TempoSync1" : false,
     "Tone" : 0.80,
     "WaveShape" : 2
    },
(Note that the Speed value here now matches the saved value for Snapshot 1, which was the active Snapshot when I saved the preset.)

Code:
"Speed" : {
        "@fs_enabled" : false,
        "@value" : 0.0
       },

       "Speed" : {
        "@fs_enabled" : false,
        "@value" : 0.140
       },

       "Speed" : {
        "@fs_enabled" : false,
        "@value" : 0.280
       },

       "Speed" : {
        "@fs_enabled" : false,
        "@value" : 0.420
       },

       "Speed" : {
        "@fs_enabled" : false,
        "@value" : 0.560
       },

       "Speed" : {
        "@fs_enabled" : false,
        "@value" : 0.70
       },

       "Speed" : {
        "@fs_enabled" : false,
        "@value" : 0.840
       },

       "Speed" : {
        "@fs_enabled" : false,
        "@value" : 1.0
       },

Notice that all of the speed values now match the inputs I gave it (divided by ten, as the code maps 0->1 to 0->10 in the GUI). When I copy and paste this corrected block to the Chorus in your original preset, it works as expected for all Snapshots.

As a final check, I tried editing the initial load-up value to this, but kept all the Snapshot values the same:
Code:
    "block10" : {
     "@enabled" : true,
     "@model" : "HD2_Chorus",
     "@no_snapshot_bypass" : false,
     "@path" : 1,
     "@position" : 7,
     "@stereo" : true,
     "@type" : 0,
     "Depth" : 0.810,
     "Level" : 0.0,
     "Mix" : 0.250,
     "Predelay" : 0.320,
     "Speed" : 0.230,  <----- This line is edited to be different from any of the stored Snapshot values
     "Spread" : 0.80,
     "SyncSelect1" : 6,
     "TempoSync1" : false,
     "Tone" : 0.50,
     "WaveShape" : 2
    },

Doing this replicates the behavior you're seeing: it loads up with a value of 2.3 for the speed, no matter which Snapshot was active when it was last saved, but as soon as I change to a different Snapshot, it loads up with the stored value for that particular Snapshot. I suppose this hack could be used to force a certain value for a parameter when a preset first loads, which differs from any stored Snapshot value, but I'm not sure why anyone would want to do that, and it might cause other unforeseen issues. I didn't test it much other than verifying that this is why your preset is loading with a speed of 2.5 and then changes to 0 as soon as you try to do anything with it.
 
Swirly, on behalf of all Helix owners, fantastic troubleshooting work, Thank you!
Sure thing, no problem! Now we just need to figure out how so many of @pipelineaudio 's presets got corrupt values written into them, in the first place...?

Confused Dogs GIF by MOODMAN
 
Thanks @SwirlyMaple The illegal speed values are what I sent to Line 6 support a few days ago, the speed minimum should be 0.0 and it was giving me a -15.0 which would be an illegal value....I thought I had posted that here as well, but maybe I didn't

Edit: I did it in post #28....I thought I was losing my marbles!
 
Thanks @SwirlyMaple The illegal speed values are what I sent to Line 6 support a few days ago, the speed minimum should be 0.0 and it was giving me a -15.0 which would be an illegal value....I thought I had posted that here as well, but maybe I didn't
How did the negative values get into the file? Isn't this preset file you posted the original one with the issues?
 
How did the negative values get into the file? Isn't this preset file you posted the original one with the issues?
Yes that's the original file with the issue.

It seems to write that illegal value in during export or copy. If I run that preset on the floor, it loads 2.5 as the speed for the snapshot, but if I copy the chorus block to another preset, copy and past the preset, export the preset, export the setlist, or export the bundle, then that preset will have -15 as the speed value and any preset I copy it to or if I import it will have 0.0 as the shown speed value and -15 as the speed value in the text editor.

I didn't get a chance to try it with the expression pedals unplugged tonight but I will tomorrow morning

Then again, that weird value could have happened earlier and just for some reason, it shows the correct snapshot value on the floor but only with that preset in that exact position, and anywhere else it goes to 0.0 in the GUI and -15 in the text editor
 
Yes that's the original file with the issue.

It seems to write that illegal value in during export or copy. If I run that preset on the floor, it loads 2.5 as the speed for the snapshot, but if I copy the chorus block to another preset, copy and past the preset, export the preset, export the setlist, or export the bundle, then that preset will have -15 as the speed value and any preset I copy it to or if I import it will have 0.0 as the shown speed value and -15 as the speed value in the text editor.

I'm confused by what you're saying here. The file you posted has the negative values already stored in it. That's why exporting it without saving it with valid values causes the issue to propagate. It loads 2.5 as the initial value of Speed because of the reason I explained in my long post above.

If you're saying that you have a *valid* preset (no negative speed values) that turns into this invalid one when you export it, please post that one so we can take a look. Otherwise, I'm really puzzled by what you're saying. The preset is already saved with corrupt values, so copying it or exporting it will cause that behavior to persist.
 
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