Less difference among humbuckers than among single coils?

[vino_buono]

Hey all! I have been contemplating the purchase of a new guitar (you wouldn't say, heh?). I already have the basic types covered (Strat, Tele, Les Paul, semi-acoustic, P90, PRS, ...). I don't have a Gretsch but I'm not attracted to it; same for a superstrat with Floyd Rose or active pickups. So... another strat? Another Les Paul?

In my band I generally use humbuckers more than single coils (say 70/30 %), and I certainly need a good humbucker tone more than a good single coil tone. However, I already have a Les Paul with classic 57, a PRS with 57/08 and a Yamaha with JB/59. Tell you the truth, while I do hear the differences among those pickups (and others I tried), under distortion they do sound somewhat similar to me. More so than different single coils, especially clean. I sold a guitar with a Duncan Custom Custom in the bridge -- nice pickup but not that much different from other PAF-style pickups under crunch. Obviously I am not talking about active pickups or very specific pickups.

On the other hand, my strat has some nice boutique pickups with relatively high output and a modern tone, and I could certainly use another strat with say some Lollar blondes in it for a more vintage tone. I can hear more difference among single coils than PAF-style humbuckers (especially clean), and I always have the impression I can eq PAF-style pickups to make them sound very similar. Maybe not the case with single coils. Or maybe not. What do you think? I don't want or need a new guitar that sounds the same as another guitar I already have.

 

[JasonE]

I think it is more about what you spend the most time with. I would say I hear more of a difference with humbuckers than I do with single coils. I played single coils for a good number of years and then sort of moved more into humbuckers due to the music I was playing. For me, there is a pretty big difference in the sound of a humbucker based on how hot they are and what magnets are in them. If you have a few guitars with humbuckers that have the same type of components in them, they are going to sound similar. That is the same with single coils. You can have some differences base on winding techniques but they are still going to be in the same ballpark.

 

[vino_buono]

I think it is more about what you spend the most time with. I would say I hear more of a difference with humbuckers than I do with single coils. I played single coils for a good number of years and then sort of moved more into humbuckers due to the music I was playing. For me, there is a pretty big difference in the sound of a humbucker based on how hot they are and what magnets are in them. If you have a few guitars with humbuckers that have the same type of components in them, they are going to sound similar. That is the same with single coils. You can have some differences base on winding techniques but they are still going to be in the same ballpark.

Interesting! I would have not expected this. I think I was imagining that differences among single coils would be more prominent because single coils tend to generate more high frequencies, and high frequencies are probably where my ear is more sensitive. When you talk about hearing more of a difference with humbuckers than with single coils, do you refer to clean or crunch?

 

[FuzzyAce]

Strat with mini humbuckers.

 

[Eagle]

My answer would be; not true with some caveats. The amp and type of tone you use can affect the amount of difference quite a lot. Get an amazing one channel tube amp with a crunch tone and little or no FX and you are going to hear as much subtlety as ANY single coil. Put it through a modeller with a medium gain and large FX chain and you would be right.

 

[JasonE]

Interesting! I would have not expected this. I think I was imagining that differences among single coils would be more prominent because single coils tend to generate more high frequencies, and high frequencies are probably where my ear is more sensitive. When you talk about hearing more of a difference with humbuckers than with single coils, do you refer to clean or crunch?

For me, it is both. As Andy mentioned above, if you are putting a lot of gain and compression on your tone the differences will be much less. I hear that same thing with both single coils and humbuckers. I hear a good bit of difference in how gain sounds with the humbuckers. The hotter the pickup the faster the sound compresses. With a lower output humbucker I like the texture of the drive better with some magnets than others. I like the sound of A2 or A4 magnets and am not a huge fan of Ceramic.

All of the things that make a pickup sound different are used in making both types of pickups. Magnets make a difference as well as gage of wire and how it is wound. Some will tell you that the bobbin material also makes a difference. I am not sure about that one because I don't wind pickups.

 

[vino_buono]

I listened more carefully yesterday, and I agree with @Eagle and @JasonE. Effects and gain can indeed make pickups sound similar. I listened to some samples of Classic 57 vs Duncan Seth Lover, and they indeed sound quite a bit different. I guess my problem is I tend to categorize (and use) humbuckers for gain and single coils for clean, but yeah, clean humbuckers are as different between each other as are single coils.

Not sure about modeler vs amp, @Eagle do you think it makes a big difference (obviously for high-quality modelers and amps)? I do find cabs are better than "FRFR" in the sense they they are more 3D if you listen in the right spot, and it is easier to capture all the nuances of the sound.

Now, that Seth Lover neck pickup is just awesome, and that's a problem... I don't get along well with the Classic 57 neck clean. Would it make any sense at all to pair a classic 57 in the bridge with a Seth Lover in the neck? Or should I get another Les Paul?

 

[Eagle]

I listened more carefully yesterday, and I agree with @Eagle and @JasonE. Effects and gain can indeed make pickups sound similar. I listened to some samples of Classic 57 vs Duncan Seth Lover, and they indeed sound quite a bit different. I guess my problem is I tend to categorize (and use) humbuckers for gain and single coils for clean, but yeah, clean humbuckers are as different between each other as are single coils.

Not sure about modeler vs amp, @Eagle do you think it makes a big difference (obviously for high-quality modelers and amps)? I do find cabs are better than ""FRFR"" in the sense they they are more 3D if you listen in the right spot, and it is easier to capture all the nuances of the sound.

Now, that Seth Lover neck pickup is just awesome, and that's a problem... I don't get along well with the Classic 57 neck clean. Would it make any sense at all to pair a classic 57 in the bridge with a Seth Lover in the neck? Or should I get another Les Paul?

Use whatever pickups you like best in what ever position YOU like it in there are no rules. As for modellers; yes even the best filter out some of the nuance depending on the signal chain but always more than an analog system. The best way to hear a guitar is first acoustically to make sure the thing actually allows the strings to ring harmoniously and then plugged in to a very low part count high end single channel tube amp with only a very low capacitance cable. This is actually pointless for real world application because in a mix nobody is going to tell unless you have borrowed the entire live rig from Pink Floyd. But it is fun.

 

[AFKAEjay]

Subtle differences in pups will be greyed out by the fact that you’re gonna dial your amp to “your sound” anyway.
Million dollar question is wether a pup allows you to do that…if yes..done.

To me subtle difference cost me more then what they offer…cause I start to dial knobs when I switch guitars….waist of time…and end up with more or less the same sounds anyway.

 

[Eagle]

Subtle differences in pups will be greyed out by the fact that you’re gonna dial your amp to “your sound” anyway.
Million dollar question is wether a pup allows you to do that…if yes..done.

To me subtle difference cost me more then what they offer…cause I start to dial knobs when I switch guitars….waist of time…and end up with more or less the same sounds anyway.

Ha that’s so true. When I buy something new I just plug it in and make it sound exactly like everything else.

 

[vino_buono]

Subtle differences in pups will be greyed out by the fact that you’re gonna dial your amp to “your sound” anyway.
Million dollar question is wether a pup allows you to do that…if yes..done.

True! These days I am forcing myself to (try to) keep the amp settings unchanged when I switch guitars, so that I can really hear the sound of each guitar. Even more subtle for pickups. But as you said... will a pickup allow you to do that? The Classic 57 neck is so fat and darkish that I doubt I'd be able to get it to sound like a Seth Lover. Classic 57 bridge and Seth Lover bridge, maybe a different story.

 

[AFKAEjay]

True! These days I am forcing myself to (try to) keep the amp settings unchanged when I switch guitars, so that I can really hear the sound of each guitar. Even more subtle for pickups. But as you said... will a pickup allow you to do that? The Classic 57 neck is so fat and darkish that I doubt I'd be able to get it to sound like a Seth Lover. Classic 57 bridge and Seth Lover bridge, maybe a different story.

I have digital in my chain, and for each gainstage an eqblock that engages on amp selection…usually it’s off…but very powerful to compensate for different situations

 

[JasonE]

True! These days I am forcing myself to (try to) keep the amp settings unchanged when I switch guitars, so that I can really hear the sound of each guitar. Even more subtle for pickups. But as you said... will a pickup allow you to do that? The Classic 57 neck is so fat and darkish that I doubt I'd be able to get it to sound like a Seth Lover. Classic 57 bridge and Seth Lover bridge, maybe a different story.

This is where I am. I have been doing this for many years. I dial my amp and pedals in to a sound I like. I don't touch anything when switching guitars. I switch guitars because I want a different sound. That is the main reason I take two guitars to a gig. I have an HSS guitar and an HH guitar most of the time. The HH guitar is typically the one that has a stop tail and the HSS has a trem. This gives me every tone I could want in a night. Of course there is the secondary benefit that if I break a string I have a backup. However, I haven't broken a string in years and most of my guitars have locking tuners on them and it is really fast to throw another string on.

 

[gearJunkie]

Use whatever pickups you like best

there are no rules