Kemper Profiler MK 2

  • Thread starter Thread starter Deleted member 490
  • Start date Start date
Problem is, that's not the question YouTubers are looking to answer. It's always "X has lower delta loudness than Y, so it's clearly a more accurate capture."
Yes and doing so with completely different stimulus signals across various videos, but presenting the LUFS value as an absolute value for comparison across various videos and tests .

Has Leo described how he achieves alignment between tracks for his null tests? That part is very important in null tests (and part of the reason null tests are to be taken with a grain of salt until that is disclosed).
 
Has Leo described how he achieves alignment between tracks for his null tests? That part is very important in null tests (and part of the reason null tests are to be taken with a grain of salt until that is disclosed).

IIRC, he said he uses correlation analysis to do the phase alignment, which is the right answer. However I don't recall if he has ever presented the details of exactly how he does it. As I mentioned earlier, IMHO, anybody who does a null test like this should provide abundant details about their methods.
 
Problem is, that's not the question YouTubers are looking to answer. It's always "X has lower delta loudness than Y, so it's clearly a more accurate capture."

Well, I think the question youtubers are looking to answer is "how do I get more clicks" ;). I was referring to someone who is sincerely trying to measure accuracy.
 
Irrational rant.

Bought a KPA Player 5 months ago at a great price - no bitching or problems :) - so when V2 comes out I can try it with my own ears - all good.

Was just surfing and hadn't checked in ages how much the Lvl 2 and Lvl 3 upgrades were ..... I had totally forgotten.

I *assumed* that the full Lvl 3 Pack had "healthily cheaper" price compared to buying Lvl 2 and Lvl 3 separately ... more fool me.

Given the marginal profit on this stuff is probably %100 - and its code that has existed for years and has been recouped by sales 000's of times over, wouldn't you at least price the "full pack" at a price point that is hard to say no to and just let the money roll in ?

Do these people even give a f*ck about selling stuff (?)

Pointless rant over :)

1772091412658.png
 
Irrational rant.

Bought a KPA Player 5 months ago at a great price - no bitching or problems :) - so when V2 comes out I can try it with my own ears - all good.

Was just surfing and hadn't checked in ages how much the Lvl 2 and Lvl 3 upgrades were ..... I had totally forgotten.

I *assumed* that the full Lvl 3 Pack had "healthily cheaper" price compared to buying Lvl 2 and Lvl 3 separately ... more fool me.

Given the marginal profit on this stuff is probably %100 - and its code that has existed for years and has been recouped by sales 000's of times over, wouldn't you at least price the "full pack" at a price point that is hard to say no to and just let the money roll in ?

Do these people even give a f*ck about selling stuff (?)

Pointless rant over :)

View attachment 59683
Your logic is sensible but I think Kemper isn’t in the habit of gauging the products worth by looking at other manufacturers pricing.

I think they entered the guitar digital amp/effects market as a unique option and lived alone in that category for a long time.
Yet priced their professional grade hardware product quite reasonably in spite of being the only one doing what they did.

So they probably decided what their price needed to be based on how it affected their sales of other Kemper product as their only concern.

I bought a Player and went all in as soon as it was offered. I knew I was paying a premium but I love the Kemper effects and the way they give us interesting control of them.

Now that MkII is about to drop I’m selling my powered head, cab and remote. It will cover the money I put into the Player and a Morningstar MC4 to control it. I have a spare Kone speaker in a 1x12 cab so it will be easy enough to never miss the powered Toaster and now have really compact replacement for it.

So if you find value in the totality of the Kemper because of the effects and morphing and excellent headphone sound, etc. etc.
And then any benefit that arrives in MKII is icing on the cake.

If the only value you see in a Player is having a small ‘profile/capturing’ type device that you incorporate into a pedal board for other effects then your pricing concerns will weigh heavy in that assessment.
 
Last edited:
Yeah completely different discussions. How it sits in a mix, how many features it has, price point, everything else that makes it great for a guitarist has little to do with comparing its capturing accuracy. I think a lot of people will say it’s a good / good enough digital rig, but their legacy capturing approach has been overtaken by the newer wave net model stuff.

As a side note to this Misha recently posted his axefx ultra tones and they were 10/10 top tier. But it’s still an axefx ultra etc
Agree completely which is why I think their marketing is WAY off. Kemper has decided to die on the hill of profiling accuracy rather than shift focus to usability in a live situation.
There’s no point in marketing you profiling/capturing if you can’t claim accuracy. Unless you’re one of those OEM Chinese brands. Whether it sounds great or how easy it is to use in performance is totally something other than the profiling. The point of captures/profiles is to be as 1:1 to a verifiable source as possible. Once something fails the criteria here it’s biffed its main job. Most people don’t care, but that’s besides the point of the technology.
100% agree. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Just like the new Stadium (that most here can't seem to say enough good things about), for many live players, capture is only a small part of the decision making process. Current Stadium can't capture at all, yet is the current bell of the ball.

Kemper, unlike Stadium, cannot claim to be the current bell of the ball for MANY obvious reasons. Kemper can't (or shouldn't) claim they are the best capture device. What they CAN claim is that they offer THE INDUSTRY best live rig for the money.... but haven't done so. They seem to want to die on the hill of a capture device (stupid, stupid, stupid).
Your logic is sensible but I think Kemper isn’t in the habit of gauging the products worth by looking at other manufacturers pricing.

I think they entered the guitar digital amp/effects market as a unique option and lived alone in that category for a long time.
Yet priced their professional grade hardware product quite reasonably in spite of being the only one doing what they did.

So they probably decided what their price needed to be based on how it affected their sales of other Kemper product as their only concern.

I bought a Player and went all in as soon as it was offered. I knew I was paying a premium but I love the Kemper effects and the way they give us interesting control of them.

Now that MkII is about to drop I’m selling my powered head, cab and remote. It will cover the money I put into the Player and a Morningstar MC4 to control it. I have a spare Kone speaker in a 1x12 cab so it will be easy enough to never miss the powered Toaster and now have really compact replacement for it.

So if you find value in the totality of the Kemper because of the effects and morphing and excellent headphone sound, etc. etc.
And then any benefit that arrives in MKII is icing on the cake.

If the only value you see in a Player is having a small ‘profile/capturing’ type device that you incorporate into a pedal board for other effects then your pricing concerns will weigh heavy in that assessment.
All of those features you mention (and more) would be GREAT selling points for Kemper IMO. These features and others should be their marketing focus IMO.
 
Agree completely which is why I think their marketing is WAY off. Kemper has decided to die on the hill of profiling accuracy rather than shift focus to usability in a live situation.

100% agree. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Just like the new Stadium (that most here can't seem to say enough good things about), for many live players, capture is only a small part of the decision making process. Current Stadium can't capture at all, yet is the current bell of the ball.

Kemper, unlike Stadium, cannot claim to be the current bell of the ball for MANY obvious reasons. Kemper can't (or shouldn't) claim they are the best capture device. What they CAN claim is that they offer THE INDUSTRY best live rig for the money.... but haven't done so. They seem to want to die on the hill of a capture device (stupid, stupid, stupid).

All of those features you mention (and more) would be GREAT selling points for Kemper IMO. These features and others should be their marketing focus IMO.
Claiming accuracy has some way of showing it, claiming “industry best live rig” is such an impossible thing to say because of all of the varying needs. I’ve used a Kemper in the past, I don’t believe it is the best, in fact I prefer most other available options, so I don’t think that would be a good move either.
 
What they CAN claim is that they offer THE INDUSTRY best live rig for the money
That is a subjective claim (and one many would disagree with)...so sure, they can claim that, but it doesn't mean its going to sell more units or people are going to buy into it. I for example, disagree. I think the footswitch capabilites on Helix OG/New and any Fractal device absolutely destroy Kemper, but Ive also argued this with you here many times already. I also think Fractals channels/scenes and Helix snapshots are much more useful than Kempers rigs. Also the freeflow signal path vs a fixed one, but that matters less for live. Seems youre just extremely used to the Kemper workflow and therefore think its superior and/or it works best for YOUR specific use case.

Agree completely which is why I think their marketing is WAY off. Kemper has decided to die on the hill of profiling accuracy rather than shift focus to usability in a live situation.
When did they decided to die on the hill of accuracy? The entire headline purpose of the product since its inception is to copy something. Obviously if youre making a copy of something, doing that as accurately as possible is kind of important to the products viability.
 
Claiming accuracy has some way of showing it, claiming “industry best live rig” is such an impossible thing to say because of all of the varying needs. I’ve used a Kemper in the past, I don’t believe it is the best, in fact I prefer most other available options, so I don’t think that would be a good move either.
I had the Kemper, Helix, and Quad Cortex all at once when I went to a mates countryside studio, years ago. I had one of those Seymour Duncan power amps, which aren't great... but I didn't know better.

Anyway, in the studio the one I was able to fly around easiest on and get the best sounds comparatively quickly, was the Quad Cortex.

Helix Revv Red was great. Kemper had nothing going for it in that comparison really. Verbs were okay.
 
I had the Kemper, Helix, and Quad Cortex all at once when I went to a mates countryside studio, years ago. I had one of those Seymour Duncan power amps, which aren't great... but I didn't know better.

Anyway, in the studio the one I was able to fly around easiest on and get the best sounds comparatively quickly, was the Quad Cortex.

Helix Revv Red was great. Kemper had nothing going for it in that comparison really. Verbs were okay.
Exactly, best in that regard is going to depend heavily on the brain of the operator.
 
Claiming accuracy has some way of showing it, claiming “industry best live rig” is such an impossible thing to say because of all of the varying needs. I’ve used a Kemper in the past, I don’t believe it is the best, in fact I prefer most other available options, so I don’t think that would be a good move either.
Which makes it a much better line of marketing than accuracy.
That is a subjective claim (and one many would disagree with)...so sure, they can claim that, but it doesn't mean its going to sell more units or people are going to buy into it. I for example, disagree. I think the footswitch capabilites on Helix OG/New and any Fractal device absolutely destroy Kemper, but Ive also argued this with you here many times already. I also think Fractals channels/scenes and Helix snapshots are much more useful than Kempers rigs. Also the freeflow signal path vs a fixed one, but that matters less for live. Seems youre just extremely used to the Kemper workflow and therefore think its superior and/or it works best for YOUR specific use case.
Certainly it is subjective; however, there are plenty of good arguments Kemper can make to justify the claim. Claiming their profiling is the best is IMO the absolute WORST line of Marketing they have.
When did they decided to die on the hill of accuracy? The entire headline purpose of the product since its inception is to copy something. Obviously if youre making a copy of something, doing that as accurately as possible is kind of important to the products viability.
This line of marketing was obviously their best line when they were UNIQUE in the industry. When Kemper was introduced, not only was the concept unique, but the platform offered very solid live use workflows (after the first year when Performance Mode was implemented) and also Kemper had a good integrated EFX engine making it a very good touring rig. It was more than good enough to start taking market from Axe II Fx and did so very successfully until well after the Axe III Fx was introduced.

Today, Kemper is still a world class live gig rig. While I don't give it the edge in all areas that matter to a live or touring musician, it's still at or near the top in many categories.

While I am VERY used to using the workflow the product offers, I greatly prefer Performance mode management to Fractal's approach. You are all correct in stating that this is open to taste and specific requirements; however, this doesn't detract from the idea that this marketing approach is WAY more viable than hanging your hat on accuracy that is flat out silly.

On my personal list of features I need (and that many others will need that gig live or tour)

  • Good amp tone
  • Good reverb and delay effects
  • Easy to achieve a specific tone for an existing song
  • Integrated solution
  • Rack format with foot controller having POE connection to unit
  • No change in tone from one release to the next
  • Performance management that is easy to setup, and easy to use live.
  • Durable build and high reliability hardware and firmware
There are definitely others, but these seem to be the ones that shout out "gig ready". While I do agree that Fractal offers a VERY good live/touring solution, it doesn't do so at a price point that is appealing or with enough "wins" in the list above to justify the large price difference. In fact, even at price parity, I still would likely pick the Kemper.

My own preference is just anecdotal though. Be that as it may, I am not unique in my needs either.

Now, with respect to what I will buy NEXT? That may well be a Stadium should they come out with a rack and foot controller setup. It will definitely not be an Axe III Fx though. I have used, and gigged the fractal and simply prefer Kemper for lots of reasons (crazy as that may sound to those who love Fractal).
 
New Video about Liquid Profiling.



Just a friendly re-posting of my impressions, copied from that other forum:

Sounds absolutely fantastic. Way to go, C. Kemper! Color me absolutely impressed.

Really interesting watching Thomas Dill step thru different generations of tone using the single Marshall Super Lead Plexi profile (2.0 Liquid Profile) with adjustments to the tonestack and cabinet resonance. Kemper Profiling 2.0 sounds very dynamic AND interactive.

The portion of the demo when Thomas Dill demo’d the “Purple Haze” tone with the vintage fuzz and true impedance enabled, was spot-on impressive — particularly in the authentic interaction with guitar volume knob. The Octavia tone was also sweet.

The Clapton and Jimmy Page tone examples are equally impressive, IMHO. Again, I am pleased to see how sensitive and interactive the profiled amp’s tonestack controls have become with Liquid Profiling and v2.0, with significant sculpting of tone via small but key adjustments.
 
On my personal list of features I need (and that many others will need that gig live or tour)

  • Good amp tone
  • Good reverb and delay effects
  • Easy to achieve a specific tone for an existing song
  • Integrated solution
  • Rack format with foot controller having POE connection to unit
  • No change in tone from one release to the next
  • Performance management that is easy to setup, and easy to use live.
  • Durable build and high reliability hardware and firmware
There are definitely others, but these seem to be the ones that shout out "gig ready". While I do agree that Fractal offers a VERY good live/touring solution, it doesn't do so at a price point that is appealing or with enough "wins" in the list above to justify the large price difference.

In 2026, very few people are looking for a rack mounted modeler for live use. Floor modelers are dominant these days. For example, Line6 has no plans at this time for rack version of the Stadium.

That means the most direct Fractal/Kemper comparison for live use would be Stage vs. FM9, which are close to the same price in the US. Kemper doesn't stack up very well on features in that comparison. For example, the Stage doesn't even have scribble strips.

I doubt Kemper sells many Stages or Toasters/rack these days. If I had to guess, I'd say their sales are 90% Player.
 
gain, I am pleased to see how sensitive and interactive the profiled amp’s tonestack controls have become with Liquid Profiling and v2.0, with significant sculpting of tone via small but key adjustments.
I wonder how much difference there will be between MKII and MKI using the same profile and LP stack? To me, that will be the real test.
 
I wonder how much difference there will be between MKII and MKI using the same profile and LP stack? To me, that will be the real test.

Yes., indeed. However, in a very real sense, I have no "dog in the fight", as I own a Mk1 PowerRack since 2014. So, this Mk2 advancement will not "benefit" me. Nevertheless, I got my monies worth, and then some. Despite the fact it won't improve my Mk 1 legacy hardware...I still hope Kemper hits this out-of-the-park for the Mk2. I wish all new Mk2 Kemper owners nothing but the best.
 
Back
Top