Kemper Profiler MK 2

[laxu]

It's interesting that Kemper, Tonex, and now QC all within a few months of each other announced they were supporting improved V2 capture tech that's created via cloud computing.

Is that basically copying NAM tech?

I expect it has a helluva lot more to do with developments of machine learning frameworks and what Amazon Web Services offers for machine learning these days.

The process has been about the same all along, it's just that they've figured out better test signals, more advanced algorithms etc. I'm sure these companies are following e.g NAM developments closely, and using it to figure out how to improve their own methods.

I would not be surprised if Kemper tried to make it work on their current hardware and found out the horsepower just wasn't there. Having to use a computer for V2 captures adds an additional inconvenience, and also diminishes the desirability of their on-unit system.

Tonex is the only one where it slots in perfectly because their process was always more computer-based rather than doing things on-unit.

For example Nano Cortex was heavily sold on "Hey, you go jam with this guy and want to capture their rig, it's really easy to do!" Now it's "Well, if you brought your laptop and want the highest quality, then hook up the Nano Cortex...". Maybe they'll eventually add some sort of "capture stash" where you can just record the training signals and later transfer them to a computer or cloud for processing into V2 models later.

 

[Antipodes]

It's interesting that Kemper, Tonex, and now QC all within a few months of each other announced they were supporting improved V2 capture tech that's created via cloud computing.

Is that basically copying NAM tech?

Not exactly. NAM is a specific application of Google's machine learning tech for analysing sound waves - initially for voice recognition stuff. Other parallel efforts from other big tech operations allow similar but not identical approaches.

Everything else in the way of capture tech is proprietary but NAM is open source and the creator is actually helping third parties apply the system to their software and hardware environments. The potential for NAM to become ubiquitous looks pretty obvious. Think about why Linux dominates in so many areas while the plethora of proprietary UNIX variants with major IT companies behind them have not ended up in your car, your TV, your phone and you refrigerator etc.

 

[LP59]

It's interesting that Kemper, Tonex, and now QC all within a few months of each other announced they were supporting improved V2 capture tech that's created via cloud computing.

Is that basically copying NAM tech?

In the case of Kemper, no. At this point they are limited to minor tweaks of their algorithm, which has a design that is diametrically opposed to NAM.

 

[Dimiguitar]

Update from Kemper forum. G string guy:

"Here’s a quick update: We’re currently in the middle of a multi-phase beta test for Profiling 2.0. This process involves gathering feedback from a growing group of testers, starting with a small alpha group and gradually expanding. The feedback we collect isn’t just about identifying bugs; it’s also essential for refining the product.

With a feature as complex as Profiling 2.0, edge cases are not unusual. They tend to emerge only when a broader range of users work with the feature. Which is why new uncaught issues frequently surface right after a public release and some of you wonder "why didn't they see that before releasing it ..."

What does this mean for you? Unfortunately, it does result in more delay. But we’re making steady progress, and we’re not rushing the process. We just want to get this right."

So it sounds like it'll take a while, but at least they're working on things.

 

[LP59]

It probably would have been better if they had done the same as IK and NDSP and don't say anything until it's released. Kemper's announcement 6 months ago was useless anyway since it doesn't say anything about the new profiling except that it's new.

 

[molul]

It's like watching your very sick uncle saying he'll get out of the hospital soon.

 

[GTR37]

It's like watching your very sick uncle saying he'll get out of the hospital soon.

With some luck they will have it just in time for Namm and line6 to drop proxy that’s a horrible schedule

They absolutely have to deliver a superior product at this point with NDSP being very well received , plus I am sure in January there may even be a host of new players and products to compete with the least of which being proxy

 

[Chocol8]

It's like watching your very sick uncle saying he'll get out of the hospital soon.

With new diseases showing up every couple months or quicker…Tonex V2, QC V2, Proxy V1, Fractal AM4, Fractal NAM support, NAM development in general. The competition is ahead and they are not standing still.

 

[Tanax]

Delays happen and that's fine, as long as you're transparent about it, which it appears they finally were.

My bigger worry is that they really had a great timing of releasing it if they had released on their announced time. Since it got delayed, Cortex V2 has been released, Stadium has started shipping, Fractal releasing AM4 + announcing NAM support for next-gen.

I can't help but wonder if, when it finally releases, even if it's a great improvement to the V1, it will have been hopelessly outcompeted

 

[LP59]

Delays happen and that's fine, as long as you're transparent about it, which it appears they finally were.

My bigger worry is that they really had a great timing of releasing it if they had released on their announced time. Since it got delayed, Cortex V2 has been released, Stadium has started shipping, Fractal releasing AM4 + announcing NAM support for next-gen.

I can't help but wonder if, when it finally releases, even if it's a great improvement to the V1, it will have been hopelessly outcompeted

Sadly, I think that sums up Kemper's situation. It's a fine device and many people around the world use it happily every day. But, because of the design decisions they've made, it feels like the competition is passing Kemper like they are standing still. You have to wonder how many of those happy customers would choose Kemper if they went shopping for a modeler/profiler today.

 

[molul]

I think the only way for Kemper to survive today would be merging to Fractal so they can use their profiling technology and their effects algorithms. It would be kind of a win win (Fractal wouldn't need to develop their own profiling technology), if Fractal is interested at all.

To stay competitive, Kemper needs to invest in a brand new UI and some modeling engine at least, which is huge stuff. Profiling is not their exclusive thing anymore and they're not even the best doing it.

Spending ~1500 in Kemper nowadays makes no sense to me, honestly.

 

[Dimiguitar]

I think the only way for Kemper to survive today would be merging to Fractal so they can use their profiling technology and their effects algorithms. It would be kind of a win win (Fractal wouldn't need to develop their own profiling technology), if Fractal is interested at all.

To stay competitive, Kemper needs to invest in a brand new UI and some modeling engine at least, which is huge stuff. Profiling is not their exclusive thing anymore and they're not even the best doing it.

Spending ~1500 in Kemper nowadays makes no sense to me, honestly.

Next gen fractal units will feature a NAM player.

 

[Richard_G]

I honestly don't have much faith in Kemper coming back from this failure and regaining their position in the market.

 

[namathan_zirwir]

They are definitely in a bad spot.

 

[molul]

Next gen fractal units will feature a NAM player.

Official statement or wishful thinking?

 

[Dimiguitar]

Official statement or wishful thinking?

Well, Cliff said next generation products will support NAM.

 

[Chocol8]

Official statement or wishful thinking?

Official, from the boss on multiple forums, including this one and the FAS forum.

 

[quadgear]

announced they were supporting improved V2 capture tech that's created via cloud computing.

Is that basically copying NAM tech?

It's not rocket science to run the training seamlessly in the cloud. IIRC, Tonocracry was the first to provide this feature.

 

[OneEng]

Sadly, I think that sums up Kemper's situation. It's a fine device and many people around the world use it happily every day. But, because of the design decisions they've made, it feels like the competition is passing Kemper like they are standing still. You have to wonder how many of those happy customers would choose Kemper if they went shopping for a modeler/profiler today.

Not many if we are talking new.

Spending ~1500 in Kemper nowadays makes no sense to me, honestly.

No, but you can snatch up a used one for <$600. They are built like a tank.

Still, the best profiling in the world for 2.0 won't fix what is wrong at Kemper.

 

[LP59]

Not many if we are talking new.

No, but you can snatch up a used one for <$600. They are built like a tank.

Still, the best profiling in the world for 2.0 won't fix what is wrong at Kemper.

Telling the entire forum to go fuck themselves is usually a final good-bye. If you're to remind everybody that you're an engineer, that's probably unnecessary.