Kemper Profiler MK 2

[molul]

Telling the entire forum to go fuck themselves is usually a final good-bye. If you're to remind everybody that you're an engineer, that's probably unnecessary.

Wait, what?

 

[LP59]

Here's what he posted the last time he visited TGF, back on page 183. As meltdowns go, this was pretty epic.

You can go fuck yourself. Stick that little dick wiener of yours right up your ass and just lay the fuck off. That goes for the rest of the assholes in here as well.

It's clear that you don't understand a great deal about a great many things. That's fine, stick with the click here where you can say ridiculous things because there happens to be a group that agrees with the same nonsense. If my retorts to juvenile posts bother you, try berating the idiots that start the altercations. You seem to be very interested in every statement I have ever made, and very uninterested in the discussion and abuse that lead up to those statements.


Thanks for the mostly reasonable reply.

It isn't "a little rough". It is intentionally brash and disrespectful. Perhaps you should be providing a little guidance to others. Shoot, DrewJD82 let Orvillian thrash him publicly and backed off like a whipped puppy. I actually felt bad for the guy.

I don't mind playing the rough game as well. I have some pretty good thick skin and have delt with a lot more crap than this little horde of infants can dish out. Perhaps I simply was too polite for too long?

There are plenty of posts where members here have blatantly baited me to respond. I didn't see any intervention then. Were you sleeping? Well, I guess I should be responding to all these little minds a bit more aggressively. Lord knows I have been patient enough.

I do like a good intelligent discussion. That isn't what goes on here very often though. A good ole fashioned pissing contest can be fun too. That seems to be more the speed of this forum. Trash talk and mob mentality.

I would point out that your own mod "stirred" this pot when he should be attempting to maintain some type of civility in the discussions. It's a shame really. I'm sure there are plenty of people that would prefer a more cerebral discussion. This just aint that kinda place

 

[molul]

Here's what he posted the last time he visited TGF, back on page 183. As meltdowns go, this was pretty epic.

Wow. Who is the guy? He seems quite triggered.

 

[Dimiguitar]

Not many if we are talking new.

No, but you can snatch up a used one for <$600. They are built like a tank.

Still, the best profiling in the world for 2.0 won't fix what is wrong at Kemper.

Did Kemper tell you why they banned you? I think it's quite pathetic they did that after 1500 posts. Have lost count how many long term forumites they've done this to, banning them for typically (imo) quite bizarre reasons.

 

[molul]

Telling the entire forum to go fuck themselves is usually a final good-bye. If you're to remind everybody that you're an engineer, that's probably unnecessary.

Lol, I thought you meant that this OneEng guy worked at Kemper and told users to go fuck themselves.

I need more coffee.

 

[PorcinePicker]

Have lost count how many long term forumites they've done this to, banning them for typically (imo) quite bizarre reasons.

Lots of panic and "shut up he explained" going on in Kemperland. Their new found fanaticism for "on topic" discussion threads is all about keeping inconvenient questions compartmentalized and shutting them down. Trying to hide that the Mk II is only a tiny increment ahead of the original? Guys, we already know.

 

[Dimiguitar]

Lots of panic and "shut up he explained" going on in Kemperland. Their new found fanaticism for "on topic" discussion threads is all about keeping inconvenient questions compartmentalized and shutting them down. Trying to hide that the Mk II is only a tiny increment ahead of the original? Guys, we already know.

But.. the slanted front...

To be frank, the main thing that bothers me is seeing super helpful long time forumites discarded like they mean nothing.

Maybe some of them aren't even bothered by this, in the sense that Kemper acted badly towards them.. Because Kemper = god's message, and who can question that.

But I don't like seeing that company behavior. I think it's wack and a pretty bad way to treat your customers.

 

[OneEng]

Did Kemper tell you why they banned you? I think it's quite pathetic they did that after 1500 posts. Have lost count how many long term forumites they've done this to, banning them for typically (imo) quite bizarre reasons.

They said it was due to off-topic posting on 2 occasions.

I think the reality is that I repeatedly pointed out that the MKII DSP hasn't changed therefore there is little reason to believe that MK1 could not run the new MK2 profiles in full resolution.

Not sure what the logic is there. Banning an advocate of your product seems like a silly move. I will vote with my $$ though (as will others). Should my Kemper have issues .... or even if I just get GAS, I will move to the Stadium at this point.

 

[Gary_W]

Should my Kemper have issues .... or even if I just get GAS, I will move to the Stadium at this point.

That’s what I already did - no regrets so far.

I was always happy with my Mk1 but the Stadium at 1.1 is making the Kemper show its age IMO and that’s before they’ve turned on several years of cool stuff via updates. Which it appears to have adequate DSP for. Because they gladly told everyone ‘hey look, it’s got new hardware in there’. It’s very easy to end the discussion of ‘what’s new in there’ if you put out a video telling everyone what’s new in there….

 

[texhex]

I had a whole bunch of crap typed up but I just deleted it all. No point.

I have literally hundreds of Profiles of my own amps. Profiles that I used to think sounded great, that I now think sound like crap compared to what I can make on Tonex and I would assume QC (God please keep me from buying a QC, I still kinda hate those fukers).

One thing that could possibly help Kemper is if they released a way to make the Mk2 Profiles for free using your computer (standalone app or plugin) but required one of their devices to actually play them. Maybe do something like put white noise or a gap every 60 seconds when playing back the Profiles on your computer in the app or plugin but they play uninterrupted on the Kemper hardware devices. At least it would get their new Mk2 Profiles into the marketplace quickly and for free. Who am I kidding… that will never happen.

Good luck Kemper, I’m rooting for you. kind of…

 

[OneEng]

That’s what I already did - no regrets so far.

I was always happy with my Mk1 but the Stadium at 1.1 is making the Kemper show its age IMO and that’s before they’ve turned on several years of cool stuff via updates. Which it appears to have adequate DSP for. Because they gladly told everyone ‘hey look, it’s got new hardware in there’. It’s very easy to end the discussion of ‘what’s new in there’ if you put out a video telling everyone what’s new in there….

I agree. Seems to me that Kemper just milked things way too long. I guess we can all be happy that they pioneered a new way of looking at modeling. At least other companies took off and ran with it.

I had a whole bunch of crap typed up but I just deleted it all. No point.

I have literally hundreds of Profiles of my own amps. Profiles that I used to think sounded great, that I now think sound like crap compared to what I can make on Tonex and I would assume QC (God please keep me from buying a QC, I still kinda hate those fukers).

One thing that could possibly help Kemper is if they released a way to make the Mk2 Profiles for free using your computer (standalone app or plugin) but required one of their devices to actually play them. Maybe do something like put white noise or a gap every 60 seconds when playing back the Profiles on your computer in the app or plugin but they play uninterrupted on the Kemper hardware devices. At least it would get their new Mk2 Profiles into the marketplace quickly and for free. Who am I kidding… that will never happen.

Good luck Kemper, I’m rooting for you. kind of…

While that would help (most certainly), I think they are so far behind in GUI and features that even if they did that ..... and profiling 2.0 was a huge success ..... and there were tons of great profiles anyone could get to .... it's going to be hard to compete with Stadium. Line 6, being owned by Yamaha, now has huge backing to get things done and to continue the product line.

Just the breadth of reach of Yamaha compared to Kemper (or Fractal for that matter) is a major business threat IMO... but to top it all off, they have done a very good job of product management with Stadium. It really does look like a home run from where I am standing.

I still think Kemper is a great gigging machine ..... but I also think that they aren't alone in that. We will see how Stadium shapes up.

 

[laxu]

I agree. Seems to me that Kemper just milked things way too long. I guess we can all be happy that they pioneered a new way of looking at modeling. At least other companies took off and ran with it.

They were very happy to be the only game in town for so many years until others just did it better. I think they are just too tied up to their specific DSP model that they don't have a way out without starting from scratch on a different DSP platform.

While that would help (most certainly), I think they are so far behind in GUI and features that even if they did that ..... and profiling 2.0 was a huge success ..... and there were tons of great profiles anyone could get to .... it's going to be hard to compete with Stadium. Line 6, being owned by Yamaha, now has huge backing to get things done and to continue the product line.

I think their real competition is the Tonex One. For the fraction of a prize and size of the Kemper Player you get a very, very competent little box for captures, with a few half-decent effects thrown in for good measure. Thanks to its diminutive size and low latency, it can be added to any rig without issue.

Tonex V2, Neural Capture V2, and NAM are all pretty much the same thing. There is no relevant differentiator to them, not even NAM's open sourceness. They all have about the same content management issues where there's not enough metadata and no real good ways to work with them. It's just file browsers with different skins.

Kemper V2 will likely join that list and it will be fine. Kemper MK2 owners will be happy if Kemper manages to solve the sound issues that have left them behind from even the V1 versions of Tonex or NDSP capture.

But past that, what is there to love about the Kemper MK2? Why would you buy that brand new over a QC, Stadium, or cheaping out with a Tonex?

 

[Gary_W]

I agree. Seems to me that Kemper just milked things way too long. I guess we can all be happy that they pioneered a new way of looking at modeling. At least other companies took off and ran with it.

While that would help (most certainly), I think they are so far behind in GUI and features that even if they did that ..... and profiling 2.0 was a huge success ..... and there were tons of great profiles anyone could get to .... it's going to be hard to compete with Stadium. Line 6, being owned by Yamaha, now has huge backing to get things done and to continue the product line.

Just the breadth of reach of Yamaha compared to Kemper (or Fractal for that matter) is a major business threat IMO... but to top it all off, they have done a very good job of product management with Stadium. It really does look like a home run from where I am standing.

I still think Kemper is a great gigging machine ..... but I also think that they aren't alone in that. We will see how Stadium shapes up.

I think they really needed the new profiling ready to go when their original patent ran out which was (so I’m told) Summer 22. That would have been a better time to be launching a premium priced product - original Helix getting older but still very much in its natural life cycle, ToneX didn’t exist, quad cortex there but not getting huge traction (I don’t think - could be wrong!).

Instead of new profiling at that point we had the player in 2024. Unless you make your own profiles, that’s a better bet for many people at half the price of their flagship. Absolutely sensible to grab some market share in that more affordable segment *unless* you make it more capable than your existing flagship everyone owns. Because these cheaper models will do the mk2 profiling, you, as a user, have got to be super keen to make your own profiles to justify going to the premium priced platform.

For gigging, the Mk1 is still more than up to the job IMO….. the second hand market has lots available and people confidently buy a known product with a good reputation for reliability (mine will be going when I get round to listing it!). Again, that hurts the mk2 flagship sales. If someone doesn’t feel the mk1 fits the bill for gigging any more and is researching a replacement, the features within Stadium are compelling (just easier to pull things together / move things around / cool stuff that showcase will do when we get it etc).

I think they’ve lost the fight at the high end due to how things have panned out and, because ToneX will do a better job with captures than player at a fraction of the price, mk2 profiling had better be good or the player will increasingly struggle too imo.

 

[Dimiguitar]

But past that, what is there to love about the Kemper MK2? Why would you buy that brand new over a QC, Stadium, or cheaping out with a Tonex?

There's the power amp integration with the head, liquid profiling, being all-in-one units...

Personally I'm quite happy with tonex one. Daw integration, such a mobile unit, etc etc. My chains are fairly simple.

Also, I don't trust Kemper making profiling 2.0 as good as tonex V2 capturing. For example, they've said nothing about improvements for profiling multiple distorting stages.

Just that alone would put tonex way ahead for me, if it's not improved.

 

[Dimiguitar]

I think they really needed the new profiling ready to go when their original patent ran out which was (so I’m told) Summer 22. That would have been a better time to be launching a premium priced product - original Helix getting older but still very much in its natural life cycle, ToneX didn’t exist, quad cortex there but not getting huge traction (I don’t think - could be wrong!).

Instead of new profiling at that point we had the player in 2024. Unless you make your own profiles, that’s a better bet for many people at half the price of their flagship. Absolutely sensible to grab some market share in that more affordable segment *unless* you make it more capable than your existing flagship everyone owns. Because these cheaper models will do the mk2 profiling, you, as a user, have got to be super keen to make your own profiles to justify going to the premium priced platform.

For gigging, the Mk1 is still more than up to the job IMO….. the second hand market has lots available and people confidently buy a known product with a good reputation for reliability (mine will be going when I get round to listing it!). Again, that hurts the mk2 flagship sales. If someone doesn’t feel the mk1 fits the bill for gigging any more and is researching a replacement, the features within Stadium are compelling (just easier to pull things together / move things around / cool stuff that showcase will do when we get it etc).

I think they’ve lost the fight at the high end due to how things have panned out and, because ToneX will do a better job with captures than player at a fraction of the price, mk2 profiling had better be good or the player will increasingly struggle too imo.

And IK multimedia is likely to release an all-in-one unit as well. That'll add more competition for Kemper for people out there who want all-in-one units.

 

[Jarick]

@Gary_W nailed it. Not much else to say. They had a really good opportunity to build on their (at the time) excellent profiling with an improved UI and more power but they sat on their hands.

Kemper came out in 2011, the same year as Fractal Axe FX 2. Eleven Rack and Pod HD500 were also recently released. Over the next decade, Line 6 released the Helix, Fractal released the Axe FX 3, NDSP entered the scene with the Quad Cortex, and others started digging into the lower end market. Now Line 6 just released the Stadium, Tonex and others have next generation captures, and Fractal's gearing up for their next gen release.

If instead Kemper released a new version of the profiler in the last few years with more power, maybe even dual profile options, a modern interface with a big color touch screen, and were able to upscale the audio quality to improve aliasing, they would be positioned extremely well to compete by staying ahead of the other capture devices. As of now their brand new unit which is barely distinguishable from the old devices still doesn't have its one killer feature, which nearly every other competitor has since announced AND released.

 

[Dimiguitar]

and were able to upscale the audio quality to improve aliasing, they would be positioned extremely well to compete by staying ahead of the other capture devices. As of now their brand new unit which is barely distinguishable from the old devices still doesn't have its one killer feature, which nearly every other competitor has since announced AND released.

They don't/didn't think there's an issue with aliasing specifically.

When the kemper originally came out, I think it had worse aliasing than pod hd series, and they did not expect it to be problem -- up until people started being like "wtf bro" (myself included).

Then finally kemper gave in and allocated resources to better aliasing performance.

They had said, from what I recall, that their plan was originally to use these processing resources for other functions.

 

[OneEng]

I think their real competition is the Tonex One. For the fraction of a prize and size of the Kemper Player you get a very, very competent little box for captures, with a few half-decent effects thrown in for good measure. Thanks to its diminutive size and low latency, it can be added to any rig without issue.

If your use case is a capture only device, I agree. For an all-in-one gig solution, not so much.

For gigging, the Mk1 is still more than up to the job IMO….. the second hand market has lots available and people confidently buy a known product with a good reputation for reliability (mine will be going when I get round to listing it!). Again, that hurts the mk2 flagship sales. If someone doesn’t feel the mk1 fits the bill for gigging any more and is researching a replacement, the features within Stadium are compelling (just easier to pull things together / move things around / cool stuff that showcase will do when we get it etc).

I agree. A used Kemper is now my #1 recommendation to people that ask what is the best "bang for the buck" for gigging. You can now get one for around $500-$600 on ebay.

For a new device? Hard to come up with an argument for Kemper IMO. Perhaps price?

I think they’ve lost the fight at the high end due to how things have panned out and, because ToneX will do a better job with captures than player at a fraction of the price, mk2 profiling had better be good or the player will increasingly struggle too imo.

Had the player came out the gate with full functionality (outside of profiling) for ~ $600, I would likely have bought one immediately as a backup. At ~$1K? Why not just get a used stage?

Kemper definitely lost the "high end" battle. They will certainly be relegated to "midrange" from here on out regardless of how Profiling 2.0 turns out.

 

[laxu]

If your use case is a capture only device, I agree. For an all-in-one gig solution, not so much.

I think the price diference between Kemper MK2 and Tonex One leaves a helluva lot of leeway to build any kind of rig you want. The point was that captures were the thing that made Kemper special, and it's now a commodity. There are plenty of other things that you can use for amplification, fx etc. Even Kemper themselves don't offer a poweramp in anything but the toaster and rack.

 

[OneEng]

I think the price diference between Kemper MK2 and Tonex One leaves a helluva lot of leeway to build any kind of rig you want. The point was that captures were the thing that made Kemper special, and it's now a commodity. There are plenty of other things that you can use for amplification, fx etc. Even Kemper themselves don't offer a poweramp in anything but the toaster and rack.

If you are someone looking for an all-in-one solution, not putting a bunch of pedals together, as your gig rig, this is what I was referring to.

ToneX, buy itself, doesn't compete with Kemper in this regard, IMO.

When Kemper was introduced, Axe II was its main competitor IIRC. It wasn't the idea that Kemper had "capture" capabilities that I recall was such a big deal differentiating the two, it was that it was more amp like than Axe II (especially with moderate to mid gain breakup stuff).

You are correct though that at launch, Kemper made a big deal out of being indistinguishable from the real amp. In that regard, even an inexpensive ToneX box currently outperforms them. Still, that isn't all that matters to people that gig, and all those other things they care about, Kemper does better than ToneX alone.

I think the real challenge for Kemper is that product like the Stadium simply dwarf it in features and functions. The XL is released. The standard "Stadium" will be priced right at the Kemper price point. How long before a Stadium light is released that is priced below Kemper (and still offer considerably more functionality)?

I could be wrong, but I see this as the biggest problem Kemper has. For that matter, Fractal should take note as well. Yamaha is about 1000 times bigger than Kemper and Fractal put together. I peg Kemper and Fractal as about 3-5M/yr. Yamaha .... more like 3Bn a year.