Kemper Profiler MK 2

[LP59]

I wonder if that is right. I am guessing that >90% of Kemper owners don't profile amps (me being one of them).

Probably 99%. But I don't know why you quoted me for that comment. I didn't say anything about profiling amps.

 

[OneEng]

In 40 years of gigging, not even once.

Wow! Starting in High School (early 80's) it was VERY common. By the late 90's I had completely transitioned to a full PA (with lots of subs), and IEM's.... so it's been a hot minute (or two) since I have gigged a vocal only PA setup.

That depends greatly on the cab. An open back 1x12 is a very different beast than a closed back 4x12 when it comes to directionality.

No. They are ALL very directional. Perhaps open back a bit less so, but still horridly directional.... at least that has been my experience.

Honestly, all these devices are primarily designed to emulate a mic’d up signal through some sort of full range system.

I love making noise with an actual cab on stage too, but if that was my primary focus a modeller and power amp and cab would be the very last thing I’d want to be using.

I agree. This is also what lots of guys hate. They expect to hear (and feel) the same thing from the "FRFR" as they do from a tube amp with a 4x12 when what they actually get is the sound of a tube amp with a 4x12 being mic'ed by an e906.

I’m always amazed when lack of accuracy is met by fans of a certain tech with an argument that not everyone profiles/captures their own amps.

Of course you want to be able to accurately profile/capture your own amp.

But that doesn’t make accuracy irrelevant in other use cases.

You also want others to be able to accurately profile/capture the amps they are in possession of, so you can play an accurate recreation of that amp!

Ok, my points are as follows:

1. Most people don't buy a Kemper to profile their amp
2. Most people compare Kemper to Line 6 and Fractal that DON'T capture at all
3. Most people care about the end result (ie, how does it sound, and how well does the workflow meet their usage).

I’m not too worried about latency in the 2-3 mS range. But one have to also take into consideration that many people also use other digital items in their signal chains (like separate delays and reverbs, for instance), and that these things do add up. So if we use your example of playing with a monitor 6 ft away and then add 2-5 digital items with 2-3 mS latency each, the combined latency can quickly become an issue.

Kemper doesn't work that way (for that matter no digital amp does with the specific efx you mentioned).

Some effects (delay and reverb) are not at all responsible for latency... because they intentionally cause latency/repeats, etc. The raw amp sound is heard within 2-3mSec. The delay and reverb are only heard later .... and it isn't something that sounds bad, or makes it hard for us to get into our music (like latency on the raw signal is).

The exception to this (and it is a BIG one on Kemper) is the transpose in the rig portion of the signal chain causes an unusable amount of latency (I am guessing about 20mSec). As a result, I never use it. I could try the efx version, but I hear it is bad as well.

A wedge 6 ft from your head with 2-3mSec would still sound instant. My IEM feed feels instant, but then again, I think that my IEM has less latency than a floor wedge .

 

[LP59]

The exception to this (and it is a BIG one on Kemper) is the transpose in the rig portion of the signal chain causes an unusable amount of latency (I am guessing about 20mSec). As a result, I never use it. I could try the efx version, but I hear it is bad as well.

Bad? There are physical limitations on how much audio must be analyzed for accurate pitch detection. For the frequency range of a guitar, that's typically about 15 ms, so that latency is usually what you see for real-time transposition effects.

 

[OneEng]

Bad? There are physical limitations on how much audio must be analyzed for accurate pitch detection. For the frequency range of a guitar, that's typically about 15 ms, so that latency is usually what you see for real-time transposition effects.

Yep. I realize this. I have this issue with pretty much all efx units and as a result, I simply bring a drop D guitar and learn songs in a different key (when it is possible to do so).

I just wanted to make sure I stipulated that the transpose DOES introduce noticeable latency. The digitech drop pedal reportedly has about 16-22mSec. I actually think Kemper is a little more than that, but I haven't measured it.

I am not saying that Kemper does transpose poorly. It's more that I can't use the effect due to my intolerance to the latency. I also think it messes up distorted tones as it doesn't quite know what to do with all those frequency harmonics. Sounds out of tune to me, or takes the life out of the power cords.

 

[DrewJD82]

Kemper doesn't work that way (for that matter no digital amp does with the specific efx you mentioned).

Huh?

 

[Antipodes]

What is proxy?

Line 6's unreleased capture tech - as revealed in the 10th Anniversary presentation by DI.

 

[molul]

What is proxy?

If you haven't watched this video, it has all Helix Stadium info so far:

 

[ChordInversion]

I would contend that without a new device, complete with a color LCD and some Ui/Ux that looks like it belongs in 2025, and perhaps a new foot controller with color OLED scribble strips, they may be limited in appeal to gigging and touring musicians ..... which I am guessing is <10% of all musicians.

More like <1%.

 

[Jarick]

Huh?

View attachment 47721

FYI there’s a setting in Kemper where you can toggle dynamic or constant latency based on number and type of effects.

The only time I noticed latency with Kemper is engaging the horrible transpose function. I don’t think I’ve ever noticed latency on a hardware unit but I can feel the latency on any computer plugin even if set to the lowest samples. I’m guessing total latency on any hardware device is under 5ms which I can’t tell and then computer is between 5-10ms which I can.

 

[ChordInversion]

It's a bummer that this thread contains a lot more arguing about and bagging on Kemper than it does information for people who might be interested in the Mk 2. Of course, that's all on Kemper. They chose to announce and sell a product while saying remarkably little about it other than that new firmware is coming "soon."

I don't see the Mk 2 as being particularly compelling. I admit that's largely because I like modeling, not profiling or captures. The one thing I always liked about the Kemper was the physical product design. The toaster suits me better than any rack or floor unit. I just want something to put on a table/desk/speaker cabinet, and both floor units and rack units are awkward for that - because that's not what they were designed for. Even the old fashioned interface wouldn't deter me if I have knobs and buttons in such easy reach on a portable piece of equipment.

Oh, well. I guess I stick with the awkward (for me) floor units.

 

[BenIfin]

I don't see the Mk 2 as being particularly compelling. I admit that's largely because I like modeling, not profiling or captures. The one thing I always liked about the

Having used a Stage only with only Liquid Profiles for some 6 months or so when LP's were released - if the new "copying" methodology is as good as NAM and it is fully Liquid Profiling compliant .... it will be a huge step forward.

But there are a lot of " if's " in this statement

 

[OneEng]

This is precisely why I really question the validity that the MK1 can’t run the new profiles, but I’m also not educated in the least bit on DSP or the architecture around that stuff. It just seems odd to me that while there’s no improvement to the audio processor, but the one that makes switching presets and boot times faster is the reason why the MK1 can’t run the new profiling.

Kemper ain’t saying shit, that’s for sure.

I agree. I am betting on a paid upgrade.

It seems likely the Mk1 is capable of running the new profiles, but we'll never know for sure. It's possible the Mk2 is simply a way to get existing Stage and Toaster customers to pay if they want the new profiling.

Yep. I bet more than 50% of MK1 users would but it too.

Having used a Stage only with only Liquid Profiles for some 6 months or so when LP's were released - if the new "copying" methodology is as good as NAM and it is fully Liquid Profiling compliant .... it will be a huge step forward.

But there are a lot of " if's " in this statement

I think it is worse than that. I think Kemper has a very good presence in live and touring..... But where the big volume is they lack the pazzaz needed in today's competitive market.

I love my Kemper and won't be trading it for anything new, but the market in general?

I'd all they did was give it a big facelift it would have helped. Despite the anti Kemper opinions here, the sound quality is very good. It's built like a brick shit house, and is rock solid dependable.... All things gigging pros value highly.

It's the other 99% MK2 Missed IMO.

 

[OneEng]

Huh?

View attachment 47721

Reverb and delay in specific; however I contend your chart is deceptive. Kemper has under 4 Msec latency with a full chain of effects in nearly all situations. It's base latency is around 3.4 mSec.... So barely any change and we'll within acceptable limits.