Bad? There are physical limitations on how much audio must be analyzed for accurate pitch detection. For the frequency range of a guitar, that's typically about 15 ms, so that latency is usually what you see for real-time transposition effects.
Yep. I realize this. I have this issue with pretty much all efx units and as a result, I simply bring a drop D guitar and learn songs in a different key (when it is possible to do so).
I just wanted to make sure I stipulated that the transpose DOES introduce noticeable latency. The digitech drop pedal reportedly has about 16-22mSec. I actually think Kemper is a little more than that, but I haven't measured it.
I am not saying that Kemper does transpose poorly. It's more that I can't use the effect due to my intolerance to the latency. I also think it messes up distorted tones as it doesn't quite know what to do with all those frequency harmonics. Sounds out of tune to me, or takes the life out of the power cords.
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Line 6's unreleased capture tech - as revealed in the 10th Anniversary presentation by DI.
molul
Shredder
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Jarick
Rock Star
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FYI there’s a setting in Kemper where you can toggle dynamic or constant latency based on number and type of effects.
The only time I noticed latency with Kemper is engaging the horrible transpose function. I don’t think I’ve ever noticed latency on a hardware unit but I can feel the latency on any computer plugin even if set to the lowest samples. I’m guessing total latency on any hardware device is under 5ms which I can’t tell and then computer is between 5-10ms which I can.
BenIfin
Shredder
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Having used a Stage only with only Liquid Profiles for some 6 months or so when LP's were released - if the new "copying" methodology is as good as NAM and it is fully Liquid Profiling compliant .... it will be a huge step forward.
But there are a lot of " if's " in this statement
I agree. I am betting on a paid upgrade.
Yep. I bet more than 50% of MK1 users would but it too.
I think it is worse than that. I think Kemper has a very good presence in live and touring..... But where the big volume is they lack the pazzaz needed in today's competitive market.Having used a Stage only with only Liquid Profiles for some 6 months or so when LP's were released - if the new "copying" methodology is as good as NAM and it is fully Liquid Profiling compliant .... it will be a huge step forward.
But there are a lot of " if's " in this statement
I love my Kemper and won't be trading it for anything new, but the market in general?
I'd all they did was give it a big facelift it would have helped. Despite the anti Kemper opinions here, the sound quality is very good. It's built like a brick shit house, and is rock solid dependable.... All things gigging pros value highly.
It's the other 99% MK2 Missed IMO.
Reverb and delay in specific; however I contend your chart is deceptive. Kemper has under 4 Msec latency with a full chain of effects in nearly all situations. It's base latency is around 3.4 mSec.... So barely any change and we'll within acceptable limits.
BenIfin
Shredder
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I agree with you sentiments but I can understand from Kemper's perspective from a big $$ perspective why they have done what they have done - ie: not a totally new ground up box.
But ... and as I said, its a very big but .... if they can pull off NAM equaling or better "copying" and combine it with their L/Profile real Amp modeled Gain and Tone Amp Stacks, it will be, i.m.h.o, genuinely ground breaking.
TheTrueZoltan!
Rock Star
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I have no idea what happened, but I want Orv back.
Would that be enough for you personally to invest in an MK2? I am wondering on my own account. Feature wise, they haven't added anything I need. I don't have an issue with my current tone, and in fact, actually really enjoy my setup. I don't see how the new profiling would make much of a difference for me. Still, I would likely pay for an UPGRADE to my MK1 if it were around a few hundred dollars. I wouldn't buy an MK2 for it though.
I am wondering how many people would pick Kemper if it had the BEST capture on the planet combined with its existing features and infrastructure? ...... and how many would still opt for the Stadium and its multi-media function fest?
I agree with what you are saying. Kemper has some fantastic features (especially for live and tweaking existing profiles) and some world class efx (especially for live performances). I just wonder if they need more than that to go up against a Stadium with color OLED scribble strips?
He can be a source of great information, but he also tends to make intentional barbs that don't add much to the conversation. He is also a very strong personality that sometimes dissuades any dissenting opinions.
Chocol8
Shredder
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I have been thinking about my next steps a lot lately, and the choices keep coming down to 1) Analog pedal board into real amps when they make sense and pedals into TONEX when I want digital, vs 2) pedals and amps when I can, and a Stadium all in one rig, but likely not until they have captures and the looper functionality...unless I get too much GAS.
Kemper and QC are pretty much out of the equation for me, and Fractal and NAM are on my interesting and I will keep watching list, but I think I want a lot more than "best sound quality" in any new flagship type purchases going forward.
Dimiguitar
Roadie
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I would pick the toaster, considering my chains are simple, and that amp tone/feel comes first for me by a big, big margin (which, for my taste, is usually achieved by more accurate modelling or capturing).
But sure, the number of people who feel this way may be relatively small.
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I'm back now. I have to remind myself, don't feed the troll.
laxu
Rock Star
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It's always a balancing act.
Over the past few years I've seen a lot more newcomers interested in the Quad Cortex because of its modern touchscreen, Apple-like form factor and marketing prominence. Yet the QC has not managed to completely overshadow Line6, Fractal or Kemper, with each having their fans. Part of that is of course NDSP's inability to make their "great on paper" premise a full reality.
There's plenty of people who don't mind putting up with clumsier user interfaces if it does the things they want well enough and sounds great to them. But I think it's harder to attract new buyers if your gear seems like it's old. Many are worried about buying an older piece of gear only for it to be replaced by something much more modern, leaving them with FOMO. The Kemper MK2 is now "new" so it might alleviate people's worries about it getting replaced.
When the Line6 Stadium launches and the dust settles a bit, I think people will find that it's a work-in-progress. Everything Digital Igloo has said points to that being the reality. That doesn't make it bad because it still has everything Helix offers, which is already a lot. But it will likely take 2026 and 2027 at least to polish its features. People will be clamoring for more Agoura models, new fx and eagerly waiting for promised features like captures, Showcase improvements etc.
For Kemper, part of the challenge is that there's a lot of cheaper, more modern "more than good enough" products with capture tech now, from Tonex One to Valeton GP5, Mooer GS1000 and Hotone Ampero 2. So Kemper is squeezed both from the bottom and top with no real way to go other than drop prices. They can't put out something new without rewriting what they have or starting from scratch.
This next gen of modelers will be really interesting because there's a lot more pressure to come up with unique features that elevate your product above the competition. Having a touchscreen UI, great modeling and fx are no longer huge selling points. We can look at the Fender TMP as a product that on paper does a lot of things right, but doesn't bring anything you haven't already seen. Very different response to its release compared to the Stadium.
The core tone is by far the most important part. Most digital platforms are weak at clean / crunch.
I will probably buy one at some point.
I agree. Kemper MK2 is going to feel pressure from the bottom from units that capture very well even if they lack in all-in-one capabilities in comparison .... and from the top with not only great sound, but a litany of features and dazzling Ui/Ux.
What generally happens in the market once a product line flat-lines in terms of capability and usability (ie, there isn't much room for any device to "get better") is that prices start falling. It is no longer a matter of who can "make the best", it is a matter of "who can make it cheapest". Sadly, I think that Kemper isn't well positioned for a high volume price war. Pretty sure we can expect plastic pedalboards with pretty OLED scribble strips along with fully integrated PCB's. Kemper took a gamble (or even planned in the roadmap) the upgrade to the surf board plug-in module by putting a DIMM interface on the board. No one does this in a high volume product because it costs too much in both parts and labor (plus it adds another failure point in production).
I can see Line 6 making the Stadium VERY well designed for manufacturing. Yamaha is well versed with doing this. Yamaha also has a sourcing strategy that likely dwarfs anything Kemper has imagined.
Having said all this, I think MK2, if the new profiling meets muster, will keep them in business for the next 5 to 7 years without issue.
Jarick
Rock Star
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There's so many cool things out there nowadays...depending on what type of tones you're after, maybe one of the preamp pedals could be a cool idea when you need to go direct.
The more I spend with the Player, it's really cool but almost has to be self contained or in a pretty limited pedalboard. It's a shame they don't have an effects loop onboard as that would have made it a lot more flexible. For instance I'd love to run direct profiles into my Ox Stomp and then feed back for stereo effects in the Kemper but that's not possible.
