Kemper Profiler MK 2

[AlbertA]

You have to admire his ability to create videos where he talks for 20 minutes yet says nothing.

Sounds like most product managers I've met

 

[paisleywookiee]

Anagram!

Oh right, I forgot about that one.

 

[paisleywookiee]

Sounds like most product managers I've met

Or project managers in general.

 

[quadgear]

The Player still occupies a unique niche that nobody else quite matches. They've got great name recognition...in some circles "Kemper" is synonymous with "amp sim", like "Kleenex" or "Q-Tip". They've got a great library of profiles. They've got really good effects. And, null tests or not, a Kemper can still sound great.

Exactly.

I was hopeful that the NanoCortex. Tonex, and Fractal VP4 would be the small, powerful unit I was looking for, and was disappointed. Anagram is interesting and might be an option as it grows it's guitar and FX portfolio. The baby stadium (Stompium) or an FM4 might be candidates when/if they become real.

The Kemper Player has just about everything I want except for a display (but Pyswitch on Midi Captain Nano bridges that gap crudely), and things like locking which hopefully are enabled. An fx loop would be handy, but I'd be ok with aux-in, but I'm an edge case. Midi implementation is pretty powerful. Sounds great which is what matters.

 

[ejecta]

You have to admire his ability to create videos where he talks for 20 minutes yet says nothing.

It’s an amazing talent.

 

[paisleywookiee]

It’s an amazing talent.

Don’t forget the slurping coffee. Slurping.

 

[JiveTurkey]

I really liked Plant’s solo stuff, I had a couple of his albums as well as the Honeydrippers EP.

Robert Plant solo material is

 

[OneEng]

FM9 MkII Turbo (the only one available here) is even 2.299,00 €, so in case the Dollar/EU asking price for the Stadiums will be roughly 1:1 (which it sort of has been for the last years for L6 products), that's 500 bucks of a difference.
As far as rating one vs. the other goes, I think we'll have to wait until the first Stadium units are in the wild.

It will be interesting to see how the Stadium fares against Fractal for sure as they have placed themselves into that price category (ie the very top tier).

The proof of the pudding will be in the eating. The quality of the amp sims, the FX and the workflow will have considerable influence on what people prefer to work with.

Agree. If it doesn't deliver the sound quality, I think the shine will wear off that penny pretty fast.

It's impossible to be the newcomer and match the feature set of the top brands on launch, if you want to make some money to support that development. Fender could have done more work to come out with a stronger product from the start, e.g fix those early amp/cab modeling issues, add more Fender amps etc. to differentiate the product beyond "We have a UI for people who hate the more abstract modeler UIs".

I've said it before that the Quad Cortex was on borrowed time too, and that time is coming to a close by the end of the year - depending on the launch feature set of the Helix Stadium of course.

For Kemper I don't feel sorry at all. They dug their own hole years ago by taking a long time to put out requested form factors. It took Line6 only 3 years from Helix release to put out the HX Stomp. From the release of the original Kemper, it took them 6 years to release the Stage, and 10 years to release the Player. Imagine if in 10 years they had put out a re-imagined Kemper Mk2 instead.

Ok, Kemper is a much smaller company than Line6/Yamaha Guitar Group. What about vs Fractal? FM3 was 1 year after Axe-Fx 3, FM9 came 4 years after Axe-Fx 3.

Kemper has done quite good for such a small company. They have maintained an excellent level of quality across their entire lineup of products. That's pretty hard to do.

While they are light years behind in Ui/Ux, from a tone standpoint they only lack in capture accuracy. Even if they only match current leaders in capture tech, it would be a huge win.

For live use, Kemper is still the leader in my opinion.

Line6 via Yamaha have a very powerful distribution network.

They have an army and then a few other armies. This is indeed Line 6's strength. Also, Yamaha knows how to bring a product to market. Of all the players in the market today, Line 6 is now the most potent. I hope that the smaller guys stay in the game though. Monopoly is only good for one entity (and it aint us).

I'm guessing it was a pretty somber day around the Kemper offices, but remember that neither Kemper Mk2 profiling nor Line6 Proxy actually exist yet.

Possibly so, but I doubt it. I suspect Kemper is making some pretty good coin with the Kemper Player. They should have had that device out like 5 years ago, but better late than never.

Just played my Kemper Mk1. Awesome tone, sick effects. Dunno, maybe sth wrong with my hearing.

Ignore these guys. There is nothing wrong with your hearing.... or any of the many touring musicians using the Kemper.

I guess the real question is....will the new profiling actually really be a step up? and if its not was there really much reason to roll out the MK2 devices as they pretty much have very little upgrades other than that.

I would be surprised if the new profiling isn't a significant step up since it will be done client side or even in the cloud. This provides a metric shit ton more processing capabilities to hone the profile. I don't know that it will rival NAM, but then again, it doesn't need to. If it even gets close, it is a huge win.

While Null tests may not be the be all end all they are at least trying to provide actual data. The alternative is the owners of each particular brand trying to justify their purchase with terms that cannot be quantified (and are usually driven with emotion or confirmation bias rather than objectivity)

I own and use Kemper. I wish it was more accurate, its still sounds good but I know it can be closer to the source, nothing wrong with stating that. I also think Tonex and NAM sound better (have used both extensively) but I like the Kemper workflow and ecosystem more.

Brand perception is a thing and Kemper for the last 4-5 years has gotten the rep as being good but less accurate than QC, NAM, Tonex. There's also Chinese brands coming up that are getting accuracy pretty good at 1/4 the price. It would be in Kempers best interest to bring their capture tech up to snuff with at least Tonex so they can shed that perception and people can focus on the other things they do well. If they don't, well then I don't think the next 10 years will play out as well as the last 10 did.

I think that Kemper is also seen as a very reliable and stable product which sells well to touring musicians. If they improve the accuracy, I think they will continue to hold their own.

There is a whole lotta sales not driven by guitar forums.

Yes there is; however, your average weekend warrior likely gets his information from Guitar Center. If they don't carry it, he is unlikely to know about it (and forget the sales people there. You get better information in the McDonalds drive through).

They're doing fine. They sell plenty of Players.

They may not sell many Stages these days though, and I doubt they sell any rack/toasters at all, so I don't know what the point of the Mk2 models was, unless they couldn't get the parts for the Mk1's anymore.

As far as the new profiling, they're not saying it's better than the old profiling, let alone better than the competition, so I'm not sure what point of that is either.

I suspect you are correct about the Players. I bet they sell lots of those.

I think you are incorrect about how much better the new profiling will be. Considering it will be off loaded to the PC or cloud, I expect it to be quite good. It isn't like Kemper doesn't know how to capture, they were likely just stuck with the capabilities of their existing DSP.

Um, it's light years easier on a Kemper to do the same thing. Sheesh.

I agree.

NAM is the absolute king in capturing quality, no one can contradict that. Tonex is second. Kemper is in last place. They introduced the concept to the guitar industry, but have not done anything at all to better the quality in 15 years. Until now, and it's more than probable that Kemper with its supposed new tech will not be on par with TONEX, let alone NAM.

Not sure where their new profiling will land in the competitive landscape, but I can tell you that for live use, ToneX and especially NAM are a complete joke compared to Kemper.

Depends on what you want. While Kemper might not be the most accurate, some people don't care as long as it sounds good to them.

Also, Kemper is the only one of the products you mentioned that has an entire suite of effects

Also, the live workflow for Kemper is top notch.

Kemper had things easy 10 years ago, but those days are over. For technical reasons, they can't advance as fast as competitors can, if at all, but that's a long way from being "doomed". They've still got things going for them besides profiling accuracy.

The Player still occupies a unique niche that nobody else quite matches. They've got great name recognition...in some circles "Kemper" is synonymous with "amp sim", like "Kleenex" or "Q-Tip". They've got a great library of profiles. They've got really good effects. And, null tests or not, a Kemper can still sound great.

I think they will continue to do alright. The Player is a very well made product. They will definitely suffer at the higher end as their Ui/Ux gets left further and further behind.

If I wanted an all in one solution, Kemper or QC would have beaten NAM and Tonex, but in the future I am guessing it will be Helix Stadium for my inevitable next all in one digital rig.

Possibly so. We will see (or hear) how the Stadium holds up.

Which higher end units support NAM? The nicest one seems to be the Dimehead.

.... and that is quite a joke for workflow in a live gig IMO.

 

[Mongillo19]

Dang dude you really took the time to reply to us all

 

[dws2384]

would be surprised if the new profiling isn't a significant step up since it will be done client side or even in the cloud. This provides a metric shit ton more processing capabilities to hone the profile. I don't know that it will rival NAM, but then again, it doesn't need to. If it even gets close, it is a huge win.

All that has been said is that a computer needs to be connected, which for the player makes sense, as it doesn’t have a screen. It could just be they want to keep the process the same between all products

There has been zero mention of the profiling process being done in the cloud or AI, you’re just assuming that because if the computer thing. In fact their marketing speak sounds like it is not AI or machine learned based and 100k points of deterministic measurement..for all we know they could already be doing 90k, it’s not a lot of data in code terms.

I’m not saying it won’t be a big improvement, it very well could. However, You spend a lot of time downplaying Helix Stadiums potential jump in sound quality saying it’s unreleased and the shine will wear off like a penny, yet take the time in every other post to praise Kemper’s yet to be released new sound.

If I had to bet I would say it’s about 80/20 that Kempers new tech/sound is more underwhelming than Stadiums will be.

 

[paisleywookiee]

.... and that is quite a joke for workflow in a live gig IMO.

How so?

 

[Orvillain]

It will be interesting to see how the Stadium fares against Fractal for sure as they have placed themselves into that price category (ie the very top tier).

Agree. If it doesn't deliver the sound quality, I think the shine will wear off that penny pretty fast.

Kemper has done quite good for such a small company. They have maintained an excellent level of quality across their entire lineup of products. That's pretty hard to do.

While they are light years behind in Ui/Ux, from a tone standpoint they only lack in capture accuracy. Even if they only match current leaders in capture tech, it would be a huge win.

For live use, Kemper is still the leader in my opinion.

They have an army and then a few other armies. This is indeed Line 6's strength. Also, Yamaha knows how to bring a product to market. Of all the players in the market today, Line 6 is now the most potent. I hope that the smaller guys stay in the game though. Monopoly is only good for one entity (and it aint us).

Possibly so, but I doubt it. I suspect Kemper is making some pretty good coin with the Kemper Player. They should have had that device out like 5 years ago, but better late than never.


Ignore these guys. There is nothing wrong with your hearing.... or any of the many touring musicians using the Kemper.

I would be surprised if the new profiling isn't a significant step up since it will be done client side or even in the cloud. This provides a metric shit ton more processing capabilities to hone the profile. I don't know that it will rival NAM, but then again, it doesn't need to. If it even gets close, it is a huge win.

I think that Kemper is also seen as a very reliable and stable product which sells well to touring musicians. If they improve the accuracy, I think they will continue to hold their own.

Yes there is; however, your average weekend warrior likely gets his information from Guitar Center. If they don't carry it, he is unlikely to know about it (and forget the sales people there. You get better information in the McDonalds drive through).

I suspect you are correct about the Players. I bet they sell lots of those.

I think you are incorrect about how much better the new profiling will be. Considering it will be off loaded to the PC or cloud, I expect it to be quite good. It isn't like Kemper doesn't know how to capture, they were likely just stuck with the capabilities of their existing DSP.

I agree.

Not sure where their new profiling will land in the competitive landscape, but I can tell you that for live use, ToneX and especially NAM are a complete joke compared to Kemper.

Also, the live workflow for Kemper is top notch.

I think they will continue to do alright. The Player is a very well made product. They will definitely suffer at the higher end as their Ui/Ux gets left further and further behind.

Possibly so. We will see (or hear) how the Stadium holds up.

.... and that is quite a joke for workflow in a live gig IMO.

So much cope. lulz.

 

[crispsandwich]

Don’t forget the slurping coffee. Slurping.

THIS. I don't really want these tossers to spend 30 minutes telling me nothing, but I REALLY don't want to hear them slurping their coffee. Pricks.

 

[Lysander]

You have to admire his ability to create videos where he talks for 20 minutes yet says nothing.

I don't know man, i learned a lot about the church he plays for every weekend.

 

[Jarick]

I've got the rest of the week off work so will try to play a good amount of guitar and see how I like the Kemper Player. When Line 6 announced the Stadium my first thought was to return the Player and bank the money for that. But now leaning again towards keeping the Player and waiting until early next year to see how the Stadium launch goes and how people like it compared to the competition.

Kemper still feels really nice to play, maybe because it's a bit squishy and overly compressed at times. It still sounds pretty nice, maybe a bit warm and stuffy. I really want to capture my amp too.

 

[OneEng]

All that has been said is that a computer needs to be connected, which for the player makes sense, as it doesn’t have a screen. It could just be they want to keep the process the same between all products

There has been zero mention of the profiling process being done in the cloud or AI, you’re just assuming that because if the computer thing. In fact their marketing speak sounds like it is not AI or machine learned based and 100k points of deterministic measurement..for all we know they could already be doing 90k, it’s not a lot of data in code terms.

I’m not saying it won’t be a big improvement, it very well could. However, You spend a lot of time downplaying Helix Stadiums potential jump in sound quality saying it’s unreleased and the shine will wear off like a penny, yet take the time in every other post to praise Kemper’s yet to be released new sound.

If I had to bet I would say it’s about 80/20 that Kempers new tech/sound is more underwhelming than Stadiums will be.

Fair. You are correct that my assumption is that work is being offloaded and there isn't any evidence that this is true.

Upon release, Stadium will have the same efx Helx has today. It will have some new amp models which I assume will be of higher quality than the current models and will only run on Stadium (vs older Helix models). While I can see the new amp models offering better sound quality, I think it is safe to assume that the efx will sound no better than Helix (at launch).

How so?

ToneX does not offer an all in one solution while Kemper (even Player) does. I personally wouldn't gig with any 3 button device (including ToneX).

ToneX can be an effective amp model within a chain of other effects on a pedal board containing many other units; however, I also wouldn't gig with a pedalboard as the workflow again is substandard to an all-in-one unit IMO.

 

[OneEng]

I've got the rest of the week off work so will try to play a good amount of guitar and see how I like the Kemper Player. When Line 6 announced the Stadium my first thought was to return the Player and bank the money for that. But now leaning again towards keeping the Player and waiting until early next year to see how the Stadium launch goes and how people like it compared to the competition.

Kemper still feels really nice to play, maybe because it's a bit squishy and overly compressed at times. It still sounds pretty nice, maybe a bit warm and stuffy. I really want to capture my amp too.

Try tweaking the definition parameter in the amp block. That generally takes away the warm and stuffy from a profile. Also the Clarity parameter. I generally like a little of the original signal of the guitar mixed in. There is a stetting for this as well in the amp block. Not all profiles can be cleaned up like this though.

 

[Chocol8]

Try tweaking the definition parameter in the amp block. That generally takes away the warm and stuffy from a profile. Also the Clarity parameter. I generally like a little of the original signal of the guitar mixed in. There is a stetting for this as well in the amp block. Not all profiles can be cleaned up like this though.

A perfect explanation of how far behind they are in user experience.