ChordInversion
Roadie
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Absolutely. Guitar and amp and pedal loyalists are pretty bad, too. In general, people who treat their purchases as causes to defend can be pretty bad.
Kemper Profiler MK 2
- Thread starter DLC86
- Start date
Sascha Franck
Rock Star
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Fortunately, being a cheap skater at heart, there's nothing worth defending on my behalf.
Ed DeGenaro
Shredder
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There seems to be a rather insane brand loyalty going around period.
Which goes hand in hand with the guys proclaiming it’s built like a tank.
Maybe if Trabant made tanks.
But then again most abuse those items see is likely when the wifezilla orders it out of the living room and it needs to be carried 20’ to the man cave.
Interesting that the original wording when released was
"The most precise amp recreation ever achieved" and now has been changed to
"The most powerful amp recreation ever achieved" .....which I feel like they been saying already for a decade
Also the IR claim has been changed from
"longest and most complex impulse responses in an amp capturing device" to
"longest impulse responses in an amp capturing device"
I guess the real question is....will the new profiling actually really be a step up? and if its not was there really much reason to roll out the MK2 devices as they pretty much have very little upgrades other than that.
"The most precise amp recreation ever achieved" and now has been changed to
"The most powerful amp recreation ever achieved" .....which I feel like they been saying already for a decade
Also the IR claim has been changed from
"longest and most complex impulse responses in an amp capturing device" to
"longest impulse responses in an amp capturing device"
I guess the real question is....will the new profiling actually really be a step up? and if its not was there really much reason to roll out the MK2 devices as they pretty much have very little upgrades other than that.
Lysander
Rock Star
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DLC86
Roadie
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- 922
It's a 1000 W amp recreation"The most powerful amp recreation ever achieved" means literally nothing
It means that perhaps you realized you didn't create "the most precise amp recreation" lol"The most powerful amp recreation ever achieved" means literally nothing
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ejecta
Shredder
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I’ve never seen it be much different since I first started hanging out on guitar forums. It must be kinda common in people to care quite a bit about what other people think about the things they choose to spend money on. I find that weird cause I could care less.
It’s been one of the most fascinating things I’ve witnessed of human behavior especially how amplified it seems to be on the internet. I don’t recall seeing that in the real world at that level.
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Ed DeGenaro
Shredder
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I do see it in the real world with a specific segment.
The guys that thought they were gonna be Rockstars and then priorities changed, and they never had the gumption to try. Got stuck in their 9-5 drudgery and are bitter about it.
But it’s less a brand loyalty than a being defined by whatever someone convinced them is bad.
Kinda the jocks that peaked in high school
Chocol8
Roadie
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- 651
They must have run a null test and made some dog whistle aliasing graphs and realized their new profiling is not more accurate than NAM, if even as accurate. Even if we can’t hear a difference, they have to know the anal retentive YouTubers are going to test the claim and post a bunch of clickbait videos about it. It is a bad idea to advertise claims that can be easily disproven.
Chocol8
Roadie
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My experience at ToP forever has been that any “what is the best xxx” thread will be 50% a poll of what people own, 49% a popularity contest where people will say what they think others will agree with even though they have no experience with the gear being asked about, and if you are lucky 1% honest answers from people who own or have owned multiple options and can give you an objective answer…which then gets shit on by all the people who own something else or who never heard any of the gear in question.
The percentages may be a bit better on this and other forums, but the bias for what people own is very real.
Mongillo19
Rock Star
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"I've never tried X product but" is my favorite
ejecta
Shredder
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Now that is truly a head scratcher. How in the world could you even know if you don’t like something if you’ve never tried it … let alone compare it side by side with what you have to make an accurate assessment.
Now Ive been guilty of this… making comparisons in my mind from past personal use of something without the other unit you are comparing in hand. That can be done to a degree but memories of things like sound are hard to keep an accurate memory of.
But I’d never say I knew for me that a thing wasn’t as good as what I have without at least comparing them in the moment right next to each other.
Chocol8
Roadie
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- 651
Mine is when they claim to hear something that is objectively the opposite of true. “X pedal adds a bunch of bass to your signal.” Hmmm sounds like it cuts bass to me, but run some sine sweeps through it anyway to confirm…yep 6db per octave bass cut.
While Null tests may not be the be all end all they are at least trying to provide actual data. The alternative is the owners of each particular brand trying to justify their purchase with terms that cannot be quantified (and are usually driven with emotion or confirmation bias rather than objectivity)
I own and use Kemper. I wish it was more accurate, its still sounds good but I know it can be closer to the source, nothing wrong with stating that. I also think Tonex and NAM sound better (have used both extensively) but I like the Kemper workflow and ecosystem more.
Brand perception is a thing and Kemper for the last 4-5 years has gotten the rep as being good but less accurate than QC, NAM, Tonex. There's also Chinese brands coming up that are getting accuracy pretty good at 1/4 the price. It would be in Kempers best interest to bring their capture tech up to snuff with at least Tonex so they can shed that perception and people can focus on the other things they do well. If they don't, well then I don't think the next 10 years will play out as well as the last 10 did.
Chocol8
Roadie
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- 651
My point was simply that they need to be careful about claims because the online world will be brutal to them.
As far as how they really perform (a couple years ago) I tested (my) Kemper against (my) Tonex and (borrowed) QC side by side right after the Tonex Pedal came out. For some things I do, I didn’t need a null test to instantly know the Kemper was struggling and Tonex and QC were neck and neck and really good. Other tests, the Kemper sounded really close to the other two and also the real amp played through a Suhr RL and the same amp as the captures. That said, I am a clean to medium gain player, and since I did that testing (and sold the Kemper) I learned that Tonex and QC can still struggle with higher gain which I did not test.
All that to say, I think Kemper needs to do BETTER than Tonex across the board to even have a chance to stay relevant. The null tests may be useful to prove that out, but how they are run and what they are run on can make a huge difference. I could have run a set of null tests that show the Kemper is already pretty good or I could run a set of tests where the results were laughably bad. Had I tested Tonex and QC differently they likely would not been as good as I thought at the time. Again, I could produce good and not so good null tests knowing where they struggle and where they excel.
Null tests or AB comparisons are really only a snapshot and don’t tell us nearly as much as actually playing a bunch of stuff through the device. Even then, what and how we play can have a big impact on the results. Be careful taking too much away from any tests you didn’t run.
As far as how they really perform (a couple years ago) I tested (my) Kemper against (my) Tonex and (borrowed) QC side by side right after the Tonex Pedal came out. For some things I do, I didn’t need a null test to instantly know the Kemper was struggling and Tonex and QC were neck and neck and really good. Other tests, the Kemper sounded really close to the other two and also the real amp played through a Suhr RL and the same amp as the captures. That said, I am a clean to medium gain player, and since I did that testing (and sold the Kemper) I learned that Tonex and QC can still struggle with higher gain which I did not test.
All that to say, I think Kemper needs to do BETTER than Tonex across the board to even have a chance to stay relevant. The null tests may be useful to prove that out, but how they are run and what they are run on can make a huge difference. I could have run a set of null tests that show the Kemper is already pretty good or I could run a set of tests where the results were laughably bad. Had I tested Tonex and QC differently they likely would not been as good as I thought at the time. Again, I could produce good and not so good null tests knowing where they struggle and where they excel.
Null tests or AB comparisons are really only a snapshot and don’t tell us nearly as much as actually playing a bunch of stuff through the device. Even then, what and how we play can have a big impact on the results. Be careful taking too much away from any tests you didn’t run.
nicolasrivera
Roadie
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- 509
Unfortunately, that's never going to happen. Kemper is doomed.
Ed DeGenaro
Shredder
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There is a whole lotta sales not driven by guitar forums.
Chocol8
Roadie
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- 651
Yeah, but most people read up a bit or ask questions before making a $1800 purchase and word of mouth will catch up to them.
They're doing fine. They sell plenty of Players.
They may not sell many Stages these days though, and I doubt they sell any rack/toasters at all, so I don't know what the point of the Mk2 models was, unless they couldn't get the parts for the Mk1's anymore.
As far as the new profiling, they're not saying it's better than the old profiling, let alone better than the competition, so I'm not sure what point of that is either.
