IDEA: Helix Lunchbox Amp Head

dk_ace said:
Personally, I don’t get it.

You’re gonna need a floor controller. If you’re carrying the amp and controller anyway, just get whatever good amp you like and plug your helix in.

For what they would have to charge for the thing to do it right, I’d rather just buy whatever amp I wanted to go along with the helix.

D
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We've reached this spot with modeling. Where the modeling itself is so good pretty much across the board that the next "final frontier" is here (for the long haul I am afraid) and there really is no way around it/perfect solution.
 
Fwiw, I could imagine a nice lightweight stereo combo (for my taste ideally equipped with FR speakers). The controller could then be used as the cover for the half-open back. One single item to carry and it wouldn't have to be heavier than, say, 45lbs.
 
paisleywookiee said:
Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Has the concept of a high end modeling amp all-in-one ship kinda sailed? I mean, I'm running an FM9 into a Laney LFR. How different is that then an amp head, a cabinet, and a pedalboard? Well, one less piece. But you know what I mean.
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I don’t know. Fender sells a lot of Tone Master amps, which is pretty much exactly what is being discussed here. All the people buying TM amps could buy a (insert floor modeler of your choice) and run it into a powered "FRFR" speaker or poweramp into cab, and yet they just buy a TM amp. There is something to be said for leveraging digital in a way that looks and feels more “traditional”.

And I don’t know that it’s purely cost prohibitive. If Fender can sell a TM Twin combo for $1,300, surely a Helix/Fractal head could be built for something in that ballpark, where an improved power amp, and a better chip to run all their amp modeling, could be offset by not doing a combo and eating all the extra expenses for speakers, the cab enclosure, increased shipping costs etc. I don’t see why any of these hypothetical devices would have to eclipse 2k.
 
paisleywookiee said:
I see your point, but kinda disagree that that's what we're talking about here. The Tone Master amps are totally different than something complex like a Helix Amp would be. TM amps are simplistic and designed for people that want a lightweight, tubeless DR/Twin/Princeton etc. Not designed for someone with the versatility of a full blown modeler.
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For sure, my vision of this hypothetical-device-that-has-no-basis-in-reality is more just a simple head. No multi fx, no programming. Looks like a head, physical controls like a head, and the only thing you select is what amp you want for that channel of controls. That could extend to a combo, but I like the idea of a simple head. So in that sense it’s a pretty simplistic device, you use it exactly like you would any other amp. (Bring your own cab/pedals etc)
 
As long as it's not class D and doesn't cost $2000 I'm fine with it. Although the DT50 was close to 2000 at launch. Good thing you can find them for 5-600 now.


And it has a tube based power section and a regular guitar speaker. :clint
 
paisleywookiee said:
Which class D amps have you tried extensively with modelers?
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Quilter TB202 and Problock200. :sick:
I also have an RCF HD12 which I used when I was playing modellers. More fitting for a modeller. It is nice and punchy but in the studio monitor sense. Music sounds good through it. I really like it but it's not the same kind of punchy as a tube amp and guitar speakers.

That said in terms of actual amplification I can't say I find anything wrong with the Boss TAE power amp. It just amplifies really well and has tones of balls and power.
 
paisleywookiee said:
See I think that's actually a lot more viable, weirdly enough. The more traditional things look, the more most guitarists value it. If Cliff was contracted out by Mesa Boogie, and did a head that was basically a three channel amp with switches and knobs, it'd be amazing.
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Yeah imagine a JVM styled amp (4 channels with independent controls for each channel) where you could have any Fractal model on any of those four channels, entirely WYSIWYG, (aside from some beed to scroll to select the model for each channel) a high quality SS power section, that looks and functions exactly like a traditional amp. I think there are modeler fans who would like that, and I think there are probably non-modeling fans that may show interest in the same way the TM series appealed to some traditionalists.

I think it’s a potentially interesting way to leverage digital in a way that still looks and feels traditional, and that you build a rig (cab/pedals) around in a traditional way.
 
Whizzinby said:
I don’t know. Fender sells a lot of Tone Master amps, which is pretty much exactly what is being discussed here. All the people buying TM amps could buy a (insert floor modeler of your choice) and run it into a powered "FRFR" speaker or poweramp into cab, and yet they just buy a TM amp. There is something to be said for leveraging digital in a way that looks and feels more “traditional”.

And I don’t know that it’s purely cost prohibitive. If Fender can sell a TM Twin combo for $1,300, surely a Helix/Fractal head could be built for something in that ballpark, where an improved power amp, and a better chip to run all their amp modeling, could be offset by not doing a combo and eating all the extra expenses for speakers, the cab enclosure, increased shipping costs etc. I don’t see why any of these hypothetical devices would have to eclipse 2k.
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TM amps aren’t really a modeler in an amp though, they’re A MODEL of one amp that looks like the amp and is waaaaaaayyy overpriced, but it’s Fender so old dudes who don’t want to look like they don’t want to carry heavy stuff will pay the aesthetic tax.
 
ian_dissonance said:
TM amps aren’t really a modeler in an amp though, they’re A MODEL of one amp that looks like the amp and is waaaaaaayyy overpriced, but it’s Fender so old dudes who don’t want to look like they don’t want to carry heavy stuff will pay the aesthetic tax.
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They also sound nothing like the amps they're supposed to be modelling but that might be partly due to the neo speakers they employ.
 
paisleywookiee said:
I see your point, but kinda disagree that that's what we're talking about here. The Tone Master amps are totally different than something complex like a Helix Amp would be. TM amps are simplistic and designed for people that want a lightweight, tubeless DR/Twin/Princeton etc. Not designed for someone with the versatility of a full blown modeler.
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Ngl, if Marshall produced a lightweight, tone-master Plexi 212 with neo-greenbacks I'd be all over it. The advantage of tone-masters is the all-in-one design and simplicity. No Menus, no cabling, no FRFRs or monitors. Just a tidy combo that gets close to a tube amp but without the weight or maintenance. And let's not understate the power of aesthetics either.
 
SKU said:
They also sound nothing like the amps they're supposed to be modelling but that might be partly due to the neo speakers they employ.
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Yeah I'd love to see someone put classic non-neo Jensens or Eminence speakers in one and see how it sounds. It would still be reasonably light too.
 
ian_dissonance said:
TM amps aren’t really a modeler in an amp though, they’re A MODEL of one amp that looks like the amp and is waaaaaaayyy overpriced, but it’s Fender so old dudes who don’t want to look like they don’t want to carry heavy stuff will pay the aesthetic tax.
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I’m not defending TM as a product, I’m using it as an example of showing there is a market for digital products designed to more closely mimic a traditional amp experience.
 
jellodog said:
Blug is screwed then. And by that I'm referring to the likely to be very expensive Amp X. 😞
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We will see. I think it also has specialty appeal because it's not a digital modeler. But there have been a lot of products on the market that have seemed like a good idea only for not enough people to buy them.

I think it actually has good bit of what people are asking in this thread, but just not going to have as wide feature set as Helix does.

I'm definitely a potential buyer, but it comes down to how I like its built in fx and workflow. Those are my only concerns, I know the amp/cab side will sound excellent because the Amp 1 and Blubox both sound great.
 
JiveTurkey said:
You can adjacently thank Boss' dumb a$$ for that $2k Waza abomination that showed that no one wants to pay that kind of $ for a SS amp. Which is what any sort of top tier modeling company designed head would price out at.
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Remember when I talked about how Roland/BOSS releases test platforms for future product lines? I strongly suspect the WAZA amp was one of them, and Katana was birthed from it. Even they didn't expect to sell many.
 
JiveTurkey said:
You can adjacently thank Boss' dumb a$$ for that $2k Waza abomination that showed that no one wants to pay that kind of $ for a SS amp. Which is what any sort of top tier modeling company designed head would price out at.
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I grabbed one of those when they were about half that, and it was absolutely killer. If some of the features were a bit more modern (switching, IRs, etc) I'd be willing to spend closer to list. Something like that with helix software would be an easy sell for me, although I guess I'm in the minority.
 
T Gobbs said:
I grabbed one of those when they were about half that, and it was absolutely killer. If some of the features were a bit more modern (switching, IRs, etc) I'd be willing to spend closer to list. Something like that with helix software would be an easy sell for me, although I guess I'm in the minority.
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I've always wondered but never been brave enough to financially f around and find out :oops: :rofl Did you ever compare it to the Katana?
 
I guess I could see a market for a four channel amps-only head, but I’d guess to support I/O (you’d want it to have a dedicated DI out with IR loading, right?) and the ability to load four separate models and not have any switching lag as well as a robust stereo power amp, MIDI support, etc it would probably still end up cost-prohibitive for a lot of people and the internals would still have to be most of the Helix rack anyways.
 
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