I really want a company to make a modern 1U rackmount effects processor

[Digital Igloo]

Is there any reason that those classic rack units can’t be replicated in modern hardware?

Many time-based effects can't really be modeled, per sé, because there aren't really any components to measure. You can capture a reverb unit via deconvolution, but it doesn't always capture the modulation that's so intrinsic in many of the better units out there. Plus, it ends up using a lot more DSP.

A company can spend a lot of time analyzing digital effects and then attempt to roll their own with their own math (perhaps after following breadcrumbs and approaching it in a similar way) but it exercises a very different set of disciplines than brute-force modeling an amp, distortion pedal, or even compressor does.

My understanding is that UA's EMT reverb utilizes the actual source code of the original, as does Logic's new Quantec verbs. Both sound fabulous.

 

[Orvillain]

Is there any reason that those classic rack units can’t be replicated in modern hardware?

It's ultimately down to Harman and Samsung, and willingness to do it. Assuming the code still exists, the engineering effort to port it to modern day C++ is probably not rocket science, but also probably not a minimal engineering effort.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Huh, I've never been able to get the plugin to sound as good as my 91. (And it wasn't the A/D/A conversion; it was always connected via S/PDIF or AES/EBU.) Still use the plug for that Lexicon sound, but only for bog-standard reverbs (mostly orchestra or drums and sometimes vox), nothing unique or special like what we could coax out of the 91. Have switched to Valhalla and FabFilter Pro-R2 (and believe it or not, Helix Native) for more interesting spaces.

IIRC the plugin fixed a few bugs in a couple of algos from the HW, but it’s the same code as the 96 otherwise. I think the 91 algos are derived from the 480 era, with Rich Plate and Concert Hall being more from the 224XL (or 480L Classic Cart). PCM 96 is generally newer stuff, aside from Concert Hall and Random Hall. The PCM96 was (and still is!) their flagship reverb, much as the 224, 480L and 960L were before it. The type of modulation depends on the algo, I think generally the pitchy stuff was something the reverb designers wanted to move away from as even though it sounds good it doesn’t behave like a room would. All of the newer algos in the 96 are designed to be very modern and clean and realistic and won’t have those kind of artefacts. The algos that hark back to that era will have more noticeable pitch modulation, and it’s kind of an era that Valhalla Vintage went for.

The 91 has:

- Random Hall
- Concert Hall
- Rich Plate
- Ambience
- Chamber/Room

PCM Native has:

- Random Hall
- Concert Hall
- Plate
- Vintage Plate
- Hall
- Room
- Chamber

You might find the Relab 480L plugin to be quite close to your PCM91, it even has a PCM91 folder of presets. IK CSR should fill in the gaps, although I haven’t compared it side by side (it was made by Relab too but a long time ago).

I haven’t really found much that sounds as good as the PCM native bundle, aside from the Exponential Audio reverbs (same designer). Relab and UAD’s 480L, Liquidsonics HD Cart and UAD/Arturia 224 cover a good bit of ground. I dig Valhalla Vintage too but it sounds a bit cheesy/toy like when compared to some of the above. Still great in its own right, and it has a fantastic GUI and tons of versatility.

 

[Orvillain]

What's PCM Native's support like these days in 2025??

 

[Someoldqueenorother]

According to Lexicon, it's missing the critical pitch engine of the 91 (which then must also be missing from the 96?) that made some of its classic presets so ubiquitous.

Huh, I've never been able to get the plugin to sound as good as my 91. (And it wasn't the A/D/A conversion; it was always connected via S/PDIF or AES/EBU.) Still use the plug for that Lexicon sound, but only for bog-standard reverbs (mostly orchestra or drums and sometimes vox), nothing unique or special like what we could coax out of the 91. Have switched to Valhalla and FabFilter Pro-R2 (and believe it or not, Helix Native) for more interesting spaces.

EDIT: Rackmount effects owned over the years: Lexicon PCM 91, Lexicon MPX 1, Ensoniq DP2 (vastly underrated, best phaser ever), Eventide Eclipse, TC Fireworx, Sony DPS V55m, Roland SRV-3030, Alesis MIDIverb 4, Alesis Quadraverb GT, Alesis Wedge, 2x Line 6 Echo Pros, Line 6 Filter Pro... Probably a few I've forgotten.

Did you ever use the Roland RSP-550? The modulation on that was absolutely wonderful.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

What's PCM Native's support like these days in 2025??

 

[Orvillain]

Oh.

Ohhhh.


Boooooo.

 

[Digital Igloo]

It's ultimately down to Harman and Samsung, and willingness to do it. Assuming the code still exists, the engineering effort to port it to modern day C++ is probably not rocket science, but also probably not a minimal engineering effort.

I was obsessed with Wave Mechanics' Sound Blender plugin (bundle of Pitch Blender and Time Blender), but years ago at NAMM they said the code was so antiquated, it would take a ton of effort to port them to a modern codebase. Plus, there'd be no guarantee they'd sound exactly the same anyway.

Wave Mechanics later became SoundToys. Absolutely LOVE their plugins but I've never been able to recreate my go-to production tricks with their newer plugs.

 

[Digital Igloo]

IIRC the plugin fixed a few bugs in a couple of algos from the HW, but it’s the same code as the 96 otherwise. I think the 91 algos are derived from the 480 era, with Rich Plate and Concert Hall being more from the 224XL (or 480L Classic Cart). PCM 96 is generally newer stuff, aside from Concert Hall and Random Hall. The PCM96 was (and still is!) their flagship reverb, much as the 224, 480L and 960L were before it. The type of modulation depends on the algo, I think generally the pitchy stuff was something the reverb designers wanted to move away from as even though it sounds good it doesn’t behave like a room would. All of the newer algos in the 96 are designed to be very modern and clean and realistic and won’t have those kind of artefacts. The algos that hark back to that era will have more noticeable pitch modulation, and it’s kind of an era that Valhalla Vintage went for.

The 91 has:

- Random Hall
- Concert Hall
- Rich Plate
- Ambience
- Chamber/Room

PCM Native has:

- Random Hall
- Concert Hall
- Plate
- Vintage Plate
- Hall
- Room
- Chamber

You might find the Relab 480L plugin to be quite close to your PCM91, it even has a PCM91 folder of presets. IK CSR should fill in the gaps, although I haven’t compared it side by side (it was made by Relab too but a long time ago).

I haven’t really found much that sounds as good as the PCM native bundle, aside from the Exponential Audio reverbs (same designer). Relab and UAD’s 480L, Liquidsonics HD Cart and UAD/Arturia 224 cover a good bit of ground. I dig Valhalla Vintage too but it sounds a bit cheesy/toy like when compared to some of the above. Still great in its own right, and it has a fantastic GUI and tons of versatility.

Cool! That makes sense and definitely helps. Thanks, @MirrorProfiles !

 

[Digital Igloo]

Did you ever use the Roland RSP-550? The modulation on that was absolutely wonderful.

I remember hooking it up to answer a Product Support question back in the 00s but unfortunately, didn't mess with it much beyond that. Did support for recording, synths, and groove products back then, so a lot of the early Roland/BOSS guitar and guitar synth stuff was out of my purview. Sorta regret not playing with more guitar-centric stuff while I stayed late to avoid traffic.