Helix PV Panama is really outdated, right??

[GuitarJon]

I've heard it many times over the years: "the old Helix models like the PV Panama need an overhaul! They are outdated and fizzy etc.". I wanted to revisit the PV Panama model, compare it to my Peavey 6505 1992 Original and see how close I could make it sound. In all honesty, I wasn't expecting it to be superior or anything like that... However, this really surprised me. Let me know your thoughts:

 

[FuzzyAce]

Giving this a listen now.
I really like the PV Panama model, use it for leads occasionally.

 

[eggpl@nt]

I like having a chance to hear the tones in isolation before the reveal. Oddly enough, I found the tones in the mix to sound more different than the tones in isolation. In the mix, I thought B was a tad duller, but in isolation, I didn't notice that as much.

Really like this riff, btw.

 

[Lysander]

Haha, aced it! I immediately thought...

Spoiler

A must be Helix, because i like that tone better, and i always get these shootouts wrong,

Great video, Jon. It's ridiculous how close Helix gets to the real thing; i noticed the amp sounding a bit more open in the isolated track comparison, but that's a) a miniscule EQ tweak away and b) i wouldn't be able to even tell at all without visual cues.

 

[paisleywookiee]

This sounds awesome! Helix does do a great job.

That being said, I really wish Line 6 did go back and redo older models, as Fractal does. Some of the other older models could really benefit from it, like the Recto and Mark.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

solid video @GuitarJon

I agree that the Panama model gets a worse rep than it deserves and people generally don't appreciate how accurate the model is.

in the mix I couldn't pick one way or another. In isolation they sounded more different than I was expecting - I think mostly down to how they're dialled in than any issues with the model. The Helix model in isolation sounds mushier and without the top end fizz. I'm guessing lowering the MV a bit more (the Helix model has the volume higher than the real amp in a critical area of the pot taper) and dropping the bias (and possibly increasing the presence a bit) would help. I think the Red7 load box means the amp itself has the presence higher than if you used a cab load, but IMO the Helix presence is too low here. In isolation the real amp sounds better to me.

I would add too - the Invective model can nail all of the tones of the Panama model (and more). It also sounds better to me, I think Line 6's modelling is just better these days. Older models have a more static presence that can stick out sometimes. Its less obvious here because the Helix model is dialled quite dark with lower presence settings and higher MV settings. On top of that you get the green channel as well as red. So I don't think Line 6 need to revisit the Panama model, purely because the Invective model already covers it.

 

[DrewJD82]

I assumed correctly off a teeny tiny basis that the attack wasn't as immediate as the amp, but it's such a slight difference that it's negligible and I didn't notice it again when the riff changed.

That's quite spot on!!!

 

[dk_ace]

Well, I don’t usually guess on which is which, but I was certain I heard a crispiness on the high end of B in the mix that had to be the Helix and the slightly smoother top of A was therefore the real amp. And I was wrong. Been using a helix for years, and I still can’t pick it out accurately in an A\B…

The riff was dope as always.

D

 

[DrewJD82]

Oh yeah, @GuitarJon, that was a great 5153 50-watt 6L6 VS EL34 comparison vid!

I got one last week but mine doesn't have the 6L6 badge on the front, I assumed it was a 6L6 for some reason and while I surely looked at the tubes since I've had it, I just didn't think about them. I started watching your vid last night out of curiosity and when I wasn't digging the EL34 version as much I jumped right up and confirmed I had 6L6's But the vid did a great job at displaying the differences.

 

[Byrdman]

Great video! I guessed right, but it was luck. Any minor differences were just that, IMO, very minor.

BTW, you should offer up the presets on customtone.com when doing Helix comparisons. It would probably draw more traffic to your videos.

 

[MindCrime]

@GuitarJon these were micro close. Helix is a fine modeler. I have the LT myself. Thank you for this shoot out, sounded stellar.

 

[kartikg3]

I've heard it many times over the years: "the old Helix models like the PV Panama need an overhaul! They are outdated and fizzy etc.". I wanted to revisit the PV Panama model, compare it to my Peavey 6505 1992 Original and see how close I could make it sound. In all honesty, I wasn't expecting it to be superior or anything like that... However, this really surprised me. Let me know your thoughts:

Loved the comparison! Great riffs as always

 

[norminal]

I love the PV Panama model, but for the chugs, it’s the PV Vitriol for me.

 

[BenIfin]

C'mon man ...... you know better than this Jon .... you and I and we all know the Helix Amps are all sh%t ... theres only "one modeler" that gets it right ..... seriously man ...... lift your game ..... get some better ears ..... and better more responsive hands .....

All the best and great work as always :),
Ben

 

[TheTrueZoltan!]

Great video! The only thing to note is that the Helix does need quite different settings to sound like the amp, especially Presence (much lower) and Mids (higher). While the real amp only comes to life with Presence at 14 to 15 o'clock, the Helix sounds quite bright and harsh with the same setting.

 

[T Gobbs]

14 to 15 o'clock

How dare you.

 

[Alex Kenivel]

What do I win for guessing correctly while listening through phone speakers?

But it really was a guess. I could hear the more present top end in the mix and in isolation - and couldn't tell you if an amp or a modeler were producing either tone.

Lucky me. I guess the old phone speakers are my Huckleberry. Now DM me my cookie!

 

[Stone]

Line 6 Helix is Top Tier Modeller and OFC Jon you know how dial it in
Which is most important

 

[GuitarJon]

It wasn't hard to dial in the Helix for this comparison. I didn't touch the bias controls etc. I think the default resonance setting is quite low though iirc so that might throw some people off.

 

[BahamaDada]

I would add too - the Invective model can nail all of the tones of the Panama model (and more). It also sounds better to me, I think Line 6's modelling is just better these days. Older models have a more static presence that can stick out sometimes. Its less obvious here because the Helix model is dialled quite dark with lower presence settings and higher MV settings. On top of that you get the green channel as well as red. So I don't think Line 6 need to revisit the Panama model, purely because the Invective model already covers it.

Totally with you on that. And the fact, that they did the crunch channel (now fixed) and the clean as well... Amazing amp. I never tried crunch until 3.7, but it is a really nice, meaty sound. A bit like the blue channel of the EVH5150 I had a long time ago.

To the topic itself: @GuitarJon : Without the cues I wouldn't even have heard a difference. Either my ears are fucked (prob are) or there is really no big thing between them. Nice. I can remember that JCM 800 vid, where the old 2204 of the Helix sounded damn close to the real thing (the SC20). You just got a hand for this. And I repeat myself: Sell some presets. I know one can easily duplicate them as you display them openly, but many (myself included) would pay the euivalent of a coffee to have the preset, have no hassle dialing and at the same time support your doings.